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y'all,
there has been a very interesting discussion on my blog this weekend that i wish to call your attention to. i have done some severe rewriting to clarify several of the points i was addressing in my essay, largely, to change people's perception that it is not an el circo, bassnectar or artist bashing post, but an examination of a system drawing on system's theory. there are some real gems in the comment section (including from Lorin), however, i would also like to point out that several have derailed the discussion of the system (not his), due partially to the lack of clarity of my original post. i am largely interested in y'all's opinions on how Bassnectar crowds differ across the country and if you notice geographic differences in what i describe below. i invite your comments on my blog, where we have already have 100 in a little over two days time. the link's at the bottom, to make sure you read this version, not the incomplete version the blog. and remember, its not bashing Lo. I love him. ;)
and now, for the essay...
Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Last weekend several of my friends and I went to Symbiosis Gathering (www.symbiosis.org). The multi-day festival featured some of the best local and international electronic artists from across the spectrum. Overall, I was very pleased with the music that I heard, from old favorites (Deru) to new ones (Mala). Although the music was the focus of the event, what I noticed more than anything else was the culture of the various communities that come out for this (and many other) events and festivals (what we used to call “raves”) here on the West Coast. Before I continue, I want to put out there that I don’t intend to point fingers specifically at Symbiosis, because they are just one of many events and crews that perpetuates this movement of our subculture that I will describe and critique. These new characteristics reach beyond that festival and are both present in year round events put on by many West Coast event production communities as well as our daily lives. Furthermore, I’d like to state that the ideas in this essay may seem just as judgmental as the attitudes and behaviors that I am calling out as harmful and destructive. Regardless of how you feel about my critical thoughts enclosed, you should know that they come out of both my personal experiences and of people in a variety of “social classes” who have shared their impressions through honest conversations over the past week. And now, back to business.
I remember a time when we were all saying “it’s all about the music.” It was a time when people from many different walks of life found a space to shed the layers of bullshit of the everyday world to express themselves, to find “peace, love, unity and respect” and be welcomed as the freak, geek, weirdo, etc that they truly were. This weekend, I found myself deeply aware of a shift away from these old raver values, into a vanity and classism that is now intricately woven into this part of the rave scene.
I’m not sure what to call this section of the “rave” scene that I am speaking of, but it’s a spin off of the breaks scene, which has musically moved in the direction of hip hop, and whose members predominantly consist of those fond of sexy low bpm, bass heavy tracks (bassnectar, the glitch mob, etc), feathers, fedoras, reconstructed clothing, psychedelics and the art inspired by them, and performance-ritual. You get the picture. I’m not here to call out that this scene has gotten fucked up (most of you have probably observed this already), but I am here to point out what seem to be the deeper layers of why it’s now the way it is and how it has influenced the way we all see and carry ourselves in our communities and in relationship to one another. I’m not implying that these social mores exist in a scene that we are not part of, but rather I’m recognizing and calling us out that this scene is OUR scene. In doing so, I aim to implicate us all as accomplices in something inherently superficial, greedy and self-serving that ultimately discourages open-mindedness and open-heartedness.
Symbiosis provided a perfect opportunity to conduct some anthropological research on classism in this part of the West Coast rave scene. Looking around, it was easy to observe how when certain music is playing (or djs performing) the dancefloor divides into different cliques based on appearances. It was apparent that beyond the superficial differences between cliques, there is a pecking order or class hierarchy, where the upper social classes look down upon and don’t associate with the lower social classes based predominantly on their appearances. It is the classism and vanity aspects of the scene that I will be focusing on in this essay, with the recognition that there are many other challenges that face the scene, which are beyond the scope of what I am looking at here.
It’s hard to say exactly what defines a certain social class, but the most obvious and defining characteristics is appearance as defined by fashion, body image, age, etc. The upper echelon includes the trustafarian peacocks (www.urbandictionary.com/define.php and their associates, but is not limited to people with large bank accounts. Think couture clothing, custom leather, and those who more or less keep the tribal markets and bazaars (and the poor artists of Bali) in business. A breed that remarkably resembles the fashionistas of NYC or Paris. They are attractive, they are skinny, they are young, they are “the beautiful people from the future” as several people I know have called them. I watch them only associate with their kind, often turning a cold shoulder to those who dress and look differently. El Circo gets a lot of shit for being this way, but they are a merely one example (and only because the imagery is so clear do I call them out here) in a growing scene of people like this. Some are wealthy, some are starving artists, but they are all rich in style and cultural influence. Yes, there are some who don’t look like them but who get acknowledged – mainly, the djs, promoters and drug dealers who have their own kind of power – these people are somewhat welcome into these circles, even though they will never be considered their equals, and are treated more like a powerful and influential servant class. The allure is obviously tempting, what a great opportunity to be near the sexy, rich and powerful and at the same time invest in your work.
Working down the social hierarchy are the tutu-ed faeries (who some might say are trying to create their own separatist elite class, but I don’t think they’ve succeeded), then those who sport reconstructed clothing, and down the line we go. Where do you fit in?
Let me try and clarify by explaining what I mean by classism, since here I am using economic class and social class in two distinct, yet interrelated ways, that can lead to confusion. In a society those with the most money (and therefore power) have the most flexibility in the system to participate in the society in whatever way they choose. Those with less $s have less flexibility and opportunity. Those that are less wealthy either have to scrape by in order to participate in a higher social class (perhaps stretching beyond their comfort or means) or live their life in a lower social class. When the culture is set up to admire and idealize the “beautiful people from the future” then those with less flexibility and opportunity suffer to a greater degree to mimic those ideals (which I call vanity) than those with greater $s. On the flip side, not all wealthy people choose to appear as though they are in the upper social class (chrisian slater wearing torn jeans and a hoodie all the time is my favorite image), but I’m not talking about them.
It is important to distinguish the ideas of social class and economic class. I believe those in upper economic classes have this flexibility or opportunity to choose their social class based on their wealth as I have described above. Furthermore, I think there are social classes that are semi-independent from these economic classes (same argument). These social classes are valued based on their proximity to the ideal value (vanity) of the culture. The most beautiful people from the furthest into the future are the most revered because they fit the ideal standard of the values of the community. Simply, they are the cool kids, with the most access to goods and services through their social capital. Beautiful people from the future get more positive attention from everyone in the community in some form or another.
So what’s the problem? Well, the challenge is that these rich and powerful folks propagate the memes of the scene. It might be the music geeks that support new upcoming talent in the underground, but it’s the upper economic class that has the economic power to define what is cool and hip by financially investing in it. Why would economically challenged artists create a social class based on expensive fashion that they could never easily afford? The upper economic class is the one who supports the designers and artists on the largest of scales, and the rest of the scene follows suit. What is cool is woven so deeply and intricately into the culture that we become unconscious of our choices and attitudes towards those who look different than us. Not only do aesthetics weave their way into the scene, but the whole vanity meme follows suit. The rich and (therefore) powerful may be vain, but they can also afford to be sexy and mysterious – the allure to follow their lead is strong. The superficiality trickles down to all levels, where even those closer to the bottom judge those who appear different, with regard to fashion, body image and age.
As I stood on the dancefloor Sunday morning at the forest stage, I looked around me seeing it all play out. It seemed like there were so many people dressing not to express themselves, but to mimic the trustafarians convinced that they are making their own personal choices. And as I looked around, I knew that despite their efforts some would never make their way up the social ladder into those exclusive circles because of their age, weight and income. I became sad for those who (whether consciously or unconsciously) strive to be accepted by the upper social class folks by not only emptying their bank accounts on fashion accessories, but also participating in body modification (not only tattoos and piercings, but also insane exercise regimens and health food consumption). Our self esteem is so easily dependent on others’ acceptance of us, so it is all too easy to fall into the traps of changing ourselves to be more like the beautiful people.
The rich and (therefore) powerful set the standards for the culture, their financial influence over the arts determines what is cool, and the rest of the community attempts to live up to these standards, by spending hard earned money to meet the subculture’s rules. Meanwhile, as the most affluent group looks down upon the rest of the community for not being cool, hip, styled, etc, the 2nd most affluent group follows their lead and submits the classes below them to the same scrutiny (despite the irony that they will never be able to be accepted by the upper class, unless they find more disposable income, get skinnier, younger, etc). Rinse, repeat all down the social ladder.
The social hierarchy or pecking order is set and the attitudes of social climbing, or associating with cool people (or those of your class or better) becomes a large motivating factor of participation in the scene, regardless of what class you belong to. Those who are the most beautiful people from the future are at the top of the social strata, and because being a beautiful person from the future is a valued ideal, we all want to be more like that. In addition, because of these values, we tend to associate ourselves more with beautiful people from the future and distance ourselves from ugly people from the past. This ensures our upward (or at least stable) social status. Those who have the most wealth (flexibility, opportunity and power) have privilege and are able to choose what social status group they want to be a part of with less financial stress than those who don’t have the same financial means. As we move down the pecking order, the classes are more tolerable and welcoming (as you would guess since they are oppressed by the higher classes), but still have judgment towards those below them that don’t fit the mold.
You might be saying “that’s not me, that’s them!” However, I challenge you on that assertion. It’s so easy to point fingers and not take responsibility. I cannot say that we all do this, but I personally do and have witnessed it happening all around me every weekend, including in False Profit, my closest friend group and across all of the social classes. I’m here writing about you and I, just as much as I am writing about them. These ideas of vanity and classism extend all the way down into each one of our social circles and affect us all individually. For example, one of my dj friends who we would all agree lives his life in a class above mine, was quick to condemn the class above him for their vanity and classist attitude, since they have treated him like shit in the past. He confidently said that a certain subsection of the scene is unlike the elite group, because when they gather he feels comfortable and welcome. Through some discussion, we both came to realize that we both belong to social classes, where some of us are welcomed and others are not because of appearances.
I’m not saying that our unwelcome is always intentional. I believe more often than not that we are working so hard at maintaining our status (self worth) in a certain class, by reinforcing the connections with those in our class, or trying to make connections with those in higher classes, that we find ourselves without time or energy for those whose appearance is of a lower social class.
So back to Symbiosis…Later on Sunday afternoon, when I went over to the field stage I noticed something different where sounds of psytrance filled the valley. The “trancers” as we call them, have their cliques, but there doesn’t seem to be such a classist, hierarchical organization based in money and appearance. I was a part of that scene for a long time and never noticed those things being present and that still seems to be true today. Trancers, whether they dress in those fluorescent Star Trek outfits, wear tie-dye, regular street clothes or some ridiculous costume, smile at each other and dance with each other. Everyone has people who they are most comfortable around and are friends with, but the friendliness extends beyond those with deep history and trust. There is no pecking order that you must work your way up to be welcomed into their stomping ground. Hell, you can even look like a breaks or hip hop kid and they are welcoming. Trancers want to feel safe and will only be good friends with you if they trust you, but they seem to have the energy to put forth a welcoming smile and some eye contact, which doesn’t happen in our scene. I wonder why that is so? Some have said that the vanity-classism thing here in the West Coast breaks scene doesn’t happen all over the country. The PLUR values seem to have held out as other scenes have avoided in some way or another the classism that’s worked its way into our lives.
So why has this happened in this part of the scene and not the others? Why is it largely limited to the West Coast? I’d like to blame LA’s influence, but that seems a little too simple. It could be that high fashion and music have collided in the underground and what I am witnessing is the result. Perhaps those attracted to this kind of music in the rave scene are also easily tempted into the excitement of sex, drugs and fashion that the elite have brought within the boundaries of the community and once again the geeks want to be just like the cool kids, just like high school. Now’s the second chance to be popular.
Where do we go from here? I find myself looking at my own attitudes towards the people in the scene and see that I have my own judgments based on people’s appearances. How do I step away from these judgments? As I contribute my energy to music and art events in SF, how to I insert my beliefs of non-judgment and acceptance into a scene that has already been infected with these vain and blindly classist attitudes? Does throwing an event in this scene automatically continue to push these vain attitudes that favor those who have more money to live up to the ideal standards set by the elite? Can we continue to financially and socially support those promoters, artists and designers who reinforce classism and social hierarchy in our music scene? What changes are we willing to make? Do we feel the need to make changes in our own contributions to the scene that reinforce the economic and social hierarchy and the vanity that comes with it? Are we mature enough to take a step back and reflect on how our social status (and the urge to maintain it or climb up the social ladder) is tied to our self esteem? In what ways are we willing to change our own attitudes and behaviors to create a more open, loving and friendly culture that doesn’t judge people based on social class and appearances both in the larger scene and in our smaller social circles?
At last weekend’s festival, I saw a theme that has been growing over the past few years as the West Coast breaks/hip hop scene recreates our mainstream culture’s standards that empower the rich and powerful and look down upon those who don’t fit the mold. The more those who don’t fit the mold change to fit the standards of the elite group, the more they are accepted by the culture as a whole. The pressure is immense to leave those with undesirable characteristics behind, even if it means oneself. Almost mindlessly and helplessly, so many of us take on these negative attitudes and spread them throughout our subculture, often rejecting our own identities, values and self worth in order to be seen and accepted by others. It is a way of life here in our little culture that I’m not proud to be a part of. I am looking for ways to create some change, in the face of the powerful forces that influence our lives with harmful and negative energy. How sad that we who try and create communities that differ from typical American values, end up embodying the same unhealthy attitudes and repeating the same destructive patterns.
To boil it down to 5 simple questions:
1) Is looking "hot" a primary value of this scene?
2) Does looking "hot" (as defined by appearance - age, body type and dress) give one more access and power in this scene?
3) Does helping people look "hot" and creating opportunity for people to look "hot" give one more access and power in this scene?
4) Does having more money make it easier for one to look "hot"?
5) Have you noticed a trend (and i'm sure there are exceptions) that the "hotter" the person (which i would argue ends up correlating with social status or popularity, since we try and surround ourselves with as many hot people as possible) the less open they are to everyone who walks by, but in contrast the less hot people are more open (especially to the hot ones)? [note: This disregards including resentment for being ignored for being less "hot" or "lower class" as a reason to be closed off to hot people (because i don't believe in reverse classism just like i don't believe in reverse racism).
If you say “no” to any of these questions, that's the dialogue I'm interested in exploring. If you say yes, thanks for supporting the views expressed in my essay that so many of us in this scene are feeling from others and ourselves.
Finally, I think this self critique is so important is because we *are* so privileged compared to the rest of the world, which gives us power and that can help the world face all of the terrible challenges that it is facing. However, internally as a scene, if we support a classist system that values vanity over depth, we create barriers to uniting a group of people comprised of the most creative, beautiful, caring and inspiring humans that fall under our greater privileged sphere, and thus limit the work we can do to heal humanity, planet, country, etc. And since most of our friendships begin at events in the scene and continue to evolve and deepen as a result of the happenings of the scene, this isn’t just about dancefloor etiquette, but about who we socialize with day to day. Therefore, I say this does matter on all levels…..
My goal with this post is to create an ongoing dialogue about this subject so that we can create positive change in our lives. When you go out this weekend, take these ideas with you and observe what you see on the dancefloor and in yourself. I’ll probably bug you from time to time about this, because it is important to me and it so easily gets pushed aside, or discussed quietly behind closed doors, because it brings into question so much of what we look forward to each weekend. I welcome your comments on my blog, here on this thread, via email, on the phone or in person. See you soon on the dancefloor.
people.tribe.net/trix/blog...4bb0008beb
there has been a very interesting discussion on my blog this weekend that i wish to call your attention to. i have done some severe rewriting to clarify several of the points i was addressing in my essay, largely, to change people's perception that it is not an el circo, bassnectar or artist bashing post, but an examination of a system drawing on system's theory. there are some real gems in the comment section (including from Lorin), however, i would also like to point out that several have derailed the discussion of the system (not his), due partially to the lack of clarity of my original post. i am largely interested in y'all's opinions on how Bassnectar crowds differ across the country and if you notice geographic differences in what i describe below. i invite your comments on my blog, where we have already have 100 in a little over two days time. the link's at the bottom, to make sure you read this version, not the incomplete version the blog. and remember, its not bashing Lo. I love him. ;)
and now, for the essay...
Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Last weekend several of my friends and I went to Symbiosis Gathering (www.symbiosis.org). The multi-day festival featured some of the best local and international electronic artists from across the spectrum. Overall, I was very pleased with the music that I heard, from old favorites (Deru) to new ones (Mala). Although the music was the focus of the event, what I noticed more than anything else was the culture of the various communities that come out for this (and many other) events and festivals (what we used to call “raves”) here on the West Coast. Before I continue, I want to put out there that I don’t intend to point fingers specifically at Symbiosis, because they are just one of many events and crews that perpetuates this movement of our subculture that I will describe and critique. These new characteristics reach beyond that festival and are both present in year round events put on by many West Coast event production communities as well as our daily lives. Furthermore, I’d like to state that the ideas in this essay may seem just as judgmental as the attitudes and behaviors that I am calling out as harmful and destructive. Regardless of how you feel about my critical thoughts enclosed, you should know that they come out of both my personal experiences and of people in a variety of “social classes” who have shared their impressions through honest conversations over the past week. And now, back to business.
I remember a time when we were all saying “it’s all about the music.” It was a time when people from many different walks of life found a space to shed the layers of bullshit of the everyday world to express themselves, to find “peace, love, unity and respect” and be welcomed as the freak, geek, weirdo, etc that they truly were. This weekend, I found myself deeply aware of a shift away from these old raver values, into a vanity and classism that is now intricately woven into this part of the rave scene.
I’m not sure what to call this section of the “rave” scene that I am speaking of, but it’s a spin off of the breaks scene, which has musically moved in the direction of hip hop, and whose members predominantly consist of those fond of sexy low bpm, bass heavy tracks (bassnectar, the glitch mob, etc), feathers, fedoras, reconstructed clothing, psychedelics and the art inspired by them, and performance-ritual. You get the picture. I’m not here to call out that this scene has gotten fucked up (most of you have probably observed this already), but I am here to point out what seem to be the deeper layers of why it’s now the way it is and how it has influenced the way we all see and carry ourselves in our communities and in relationship to one another. I’m not implying that these social mores exist in a scene that we are not part of, but rather I’m recognizing and calling us out that this scene is OUR scene. In doing so, I aim to implicate us all as accomplices in something inherently superficial, greedy and self-serving that ultimately discourages open-mindedness and open-heartedness.
Symbiosis provided a perfect opportunity to conduct some anthropological research on classism in this part of the West Coast rave scene. Looking around, it was easy to observe how when certain music is playing (or djs performing) the dancefloor divides into different cliques based on appearances. It was apparent that beyond the superficial differences between cliques, there is a pecking order or class hierarchy, where the upper social classes look down upon and don’t associate with the lower social classes based predominantly on their appearances. It is the classism and vanity aspects of the scene that I will be focusing on in this essay, with the recognition that there are many other challenges that face the scene, which are beyond the scope of what I am looking at here.
It’s hard to say exactly what defines a certain social class, but the most obvious and defining characteristics is appearance as defined by fashion, body image, age, etc. The upper echelon includes the trustafarian peacocks (www.urbandictionary.com/define.php and their associates, but is not limited to people with large bank accounts. Think couture clothing, custom leather, and those who more or less keep the tribal markets and bazaars (and the poor artists of Bali) in business. A breed that remarkably resembles the fashionistas of NYC or Paris. They are attractive, they are skinny, they are young, they are “the beautiful people from the future” as several people I know have called them. I watch them only associate with their kind, often turning a cold shoulder to those who dress and look differently. El Circo gets a lot of shit for being this way, but they are a merely one example (and only because the imagery is so clear do I call them out here) in a growing scene of people like this. Some are wealthy, some are starving artists, but they are all rich in style and cultural influence. Yes, there are some who don’t look like them but who get acknowledged – mainly, the djs, promoters and drug dealers who have their own kind of power – these people are somewhat welcome into these circles, even though they will never be considered their equals, and are treated more like a powerful and influential servant class. The allure is obviously tempting, what a great opportunity to be near the sexy, rich and powerful and at the same time invest in your work.
Working down the social hierarchy are the tutu-ed faeries (who some might say are trying to create their own separatist elite class, but I don’t think they’ve succeeded), then those who sport reconstructed clothing, and down the line we go. Where do you fit in?
Let me try and clarify by explaining what I mean by classism, since here I am using economic class and social class in two distinct, yet interrelated ways, that can lead to confusion. In a society those with the most money (and therefore power) have the most flexibility in the system to participate in the society in whatever way they choose. Those with less $s have less flexibility and opportunity. Those that are less wealthy either have to scrape by in order to participate in a higher social class (perhaps stretching beyond their comfort or means) or live their life in a lower social class. When the culture is set up to admire and idealize the “beautiful people from the future” then those with less flexibility and opportunity suffer to a greater degree to mimic those ideals (which I call vanity) than those with greater $s. On the flip side, not all wealthy people choose to appear as though they are in the upper social class (chrisian slater wearing torn jeans and a hoodie all the time is my favorite image), but I’m not talking about them.
It is important to distinguish the ideas of social class and economic class. I believe those in upper economic classes have this flexibility or opportunity to choose their social class based on their wealth as I have described above. Furthermore, I think there are social classes that are semi-independent from these economic classes (same argument). These social classes are valued based on their proximity to the ideal value (vanity) of the culture. The most beautiful people from the furthest into the future are the most revered because they fit the ideal standard of the values of the community. Simply, they are the cool kids, with the most access to goods and services through their social capital. Beautiful people from the future get more positive attention from everyone in the community in some form or another.
So what’s the problem? Well, the challenge is that these rich and powerful folks propagate the memes of the scene. It might be the music geeks that support new upcoming talent in the underground, but it’s the upper economic class that has the economic power to define what is cool and hip by financially investing in it. Why would economically challenged artists create a social class based on expensive fashion that they could never easily afford? The upper economic class is the one who supports the designers and artists on the largest of scales, and the rest of the scene follows suit. What is cool is woven so deeply and intricately into the culture that we become unconscious of our choices and attitudes towards those who look different than us. Not only do aesthetics weave their way into the scene, but the whole vanity meme follows suit. The rich and (therefore) powerful may be vain, but they can also afford to be sexy and mysterious – the allure to follow their lead is strong. The superficiality trickles down to all levels, where even those closer to the bottom judge those who appear different, with regard to fashion, body image and age.
As I stood on the dancefloor Sunday morning at the forest stage, I looked around me seeing it all play out. It seemed like there were so many people dressing not to express themselves, but to mimic the trustafarians convinced that they are making their own personal choices. And as I looked around, I knew that despite their efforts some would never make their way up the social ladder into those exclusive circles because of their age, weight and income. I became sad for those who (whether consciously or unconsciously) strive to be accepted by the upper social class folks by not only emptying their bank accounts on fashion accessories, but also participating in body modification (not only tattoos and piercings, but also insane exercise regimens and health food consumption). Our self esteem is so easily dependent on others’ acceptance of us, so it is all too easy to fall into the traps of changing ourselves to be more like the beautiful people.
The rich and (therefore) powerful set the standards for the culture, their financial influence over the arts determines what is cool, and the rest of the community attempts to live up to these standards, by spending hard earned money to meet the subculture’s rules. Meanwhile, as the most affluent group looks down upon the rest of the community for not being cool, hip, styled, etc, the 2nd most affluent group follows their lead and submits the classes below them to the same scrutiny (despite the irony that they will never be able to be accepted by the upper class, unless they find more disposable income, get skinnier, younger, etc). Rinse, repeat all down the social ladder.
The social hierarchy or pecking order is set and the attitudes of social climbing, or associating with cool people (or those of your class or better) becomes a large motivating factor of participation in the scene, regardless of what class you belong to. Those who are the most beautiful people from the future are at the top of the social strata, and because being a beautiful person from the future is a valued ideal, we all want to be more like that. In addition, because of these values, we tend to associate ourselves more with beautiful people from the future and distance ourselves from ugly people from the past. This ensures our upward (or at least stable) social status. Those who have the most wealth (flexibility, opportunity and power) have privilege and are able to choose what social status group they want to be a part of with less financial stress than those who don’t have the same financial means. As we move down the pecking order, the classes are more tolerable and welcoming (as you would guess since they are oppressed by the higher classes), but still have judgment towards those below them that don’t fit the mold.
You might be saying “that’s not me, that’s them!” However, I challenge you on that assertion. It’s so easy to point fingers and not take responsibility. I cannot say that we all do this, but I personally do and have witnessed it happening all around me every weekend, including in False Profit, my closest friend group and across all of the social classes. I’m here writing about you and I, just as much as I am writing about them. These ideas of vanity and classism extend all the way down into each one of our social circles and affect us all individually. For example, one of my dj friends who we would all agree lives his life in a class above mine, was quick to condemn the class above him for their vanity and classist attitude, since they have treated him like shit in the past. He confidently said that a certain subsection of the scene is unlike the elite group, because when they gather he feels comfortable and welcome. Through some discussion, we both came to realize that we both belong to social classes, where some of us are welcomed and others are not because of appearances.
I’m not saying that our unwelcome is always intentional. I believe more often than not that we are working so hard at maintaining our status (self worth) in a certain class, by reinforcing the connections with those in our class, or trying to make connections with those in higher classes, that we find ourselves without time or energy for those whose appearance is of a lower social class.
So back to Symbiosis…Later on Sunday afternoon, when I went over to the field stage I noticed something different where sounds of psytrance filled the valley. The “trancers” as we call them, have their cliques, but there doesn’t seem to be such a classist, hierarchical organization based in money and appearance. I was a part of that scene for a long time and never noticed those things being present and that still seems to be true today. Trancers, whether they dress in those fluorescent Star Trek outfits, wear tie-dye, regular street clothes or some ridiculous costume, smile at each other and dance with each other. Everyone has people who they are most comfortable around and are friends with, but the friendliness extends beyond those with deep history and trust. There is no pecking order that you must work your way up to be welcomed into their stomping ground. Hell, you can even look like a breaks or hip hop kid and they are welcoming. Trancers want to feel safe and will only be good friends with you if they trust you, but they seem to have the energy to put forth a welcoming smile and some eye contact, which doesn’t happen in our scene. I wonder why that is so? Some have said that the vanity-classism thing here in the West Coast breaks scene doesn’t happen all over the country. The PLUR values seem to have held out as other scenes have avoided in some way or another the classism that’s worked its way into our lives.
So why has this happened in this part of the scene and not the others? Why is it largely limited to the West Coast? I’d like to blame LA’s influence, but that seems a little too simple. It could be that high fashion and music have collided in the underground and what I am witnessing is the result. Perhaps those attracted to this kind of music in the rave scene are also easily tempted into the excitement of sex, drugs and fashion that the elite have brought within the boundaries of the community and once again the geeks want to be just like the cool kids, just like high school. Now’s the second chance to be popular.
Where do we go from here? I find myself looking at my own attitudes towards the people in the scene and see that I have my own judgments based on people’s appearances. How do I step away from these judgments? As I contribute my energy to music and art events in SF, how to I insert my beliefs of non-judgment and acceptance into a scene that has already been infected with these vain and blindly classist attitudes? Does throwing an event in this scene automatically continue to push these vain attitudes that favor those who have more money to live up to the ideal standards set by the elite? Can we continue to financially and socially support those promoters, artists and designers who reinforce classism and social hierarchy in our music scene? What changes are we willing to make? Do we feel the need to make changes in our own contributions to the scene that reinforce the economic and social hierarchy and the vanity that comes with it? Are we mature enough to take a step back and reflect on how our social status (and the urge to maintain it or climb up the social ladder) is tied to our self esteem? In what ways are we willing to change our own attitudes and behaviors to create a more open, loving and friendly culture that doesn’t judge people based on social class and appearances both in the larger scene and in our smaller social circles?
At last weekend’s festival, I saw a theme that has been growing over the past few years as the West Coast breaks/hip hop scene recreates our mainstream culture’s standards that empower the rich and powerful and look down upon those who don’t fit the mold. The more those who don’t fit the mold change to fit the standards of the elite group, the more they are accepted by the culture as a whole. The pressure is immense to leave those with undesirable characteristics behind, even if it means oneself. Almost mindlessly and helplessly, so many of us take on these negative attitudes and spread them throughout our subculture, often rejecting our own identities, values and self worth in order to be seen and accepted by others. It is a way of life here in our little culture that I’m not proud to be a part of. I am looking for ways to create some change, in the face of the powerful forces that influence our lives with harmful and negative energy. How sad that we who try and create communities that differ from typical American values, end up embodying the same unhealthy attitudes and repeating the same destructive patterns.
To boil it down to 5 simple questions:
1) Is looking "hot" a primary value of this scene?
2) Does looking "hot" (as defined by appearance - age, body type and dress) give one more access and power in this scene?
3) Does helping people look "hot" and creating opportunity for people to look "hot" give one more access and power in this scene?
4) Does having more money make it easier for one to look "hot"?
5) Have you noticed a trend (and i'm sure there are exceptions) that the "hotter" the person (which i would argue ends up correlating with social status or popularity, since we try and surround ourselves with as many hot people as possible) the less open they are to everyone who walks by, but in contrast the less hot people are more open (especially to the hot ones)? [note: This disregards including resentment for being ignored for being less "hot" or "lower class" as a reason to be closed off to hot people (because i don't believe in reverse classism just like i don't believe in reverse racism).
If you say “no” to any of these questions, that's the dialogue I'm interested in exploring. If you say yes, thanks for supporting the views expressed in my essay that so many of us in this scene are feeling from others and ourselves.
Finally, I think this self critique is so important is because we *are* so privileged compared to the rest of the world, which gives us power and that can help the world face all of the terrible challenges that it is facing. However, internally as a scene, if we support a classist system that values vanity over depth, we create barriers to uniting a group of people comprised of the most creative, beautiful, caring and inspiring humans that fall under our greater privileged sphere, and thus limit the work we can do to heal humanity, planet, country, etc. And since most of our friendships begin at events in the scene and continue to evolve and deepen as a result of the happenings of the scene, this isn’t just about dancefloor etiquette, but about who we socialize with day to day. Therefore, I say this does matter on all levels…..
My goal with this post is to create an ongoing dialogue about this subject so that we can create positive change in our lives. When you go out this weekend, take these ideas with you and observe what you see on the dancefloor and in yourself. I’ll probably bug you from time to time about this, because it is important to me and it so easily gets pushed aside, or discussed quietly behind closed doors, because it brings into question so much of what we look forward to each weekend. I welcome your comments on my blog, here on this thread, via email, on the phone or in person. See you soon on the dancefloor.
people.tribe.net/trix/blog...4bb0008beb
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 3:04 PM
Just dance and ignore everyone else.
-or-
Purge yourself of insecurity.
-or-
Don't try to think too much about the events you are suppose to just have fun at. If you are no longer having fun at said events, look for others.
Did you go to Love Parade this year? No cliqueyness there at all. Then again, I am a beautiful person from the future so maybe I didn't notice. ;)
-troy -
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 4:37 PM1) i like connecting with people
2) many of us try an connect with certain people and they don't acknowledge us
3) thinking is what i do. i have fun thinking. i also have fun dancing. i mostly have fun thinking and dancing in an open and loving environment. and so many people look at these events as more than just a place to have fun. i'm looking for more than that in these communities.
i am blessed enough to be able to be happy, have fun and feel secure in a scene which is oppressive. my high self esteem doesn't make the scene any less oppressive, it just allows me to cope with it.
i'm looking to change the oppressive system. some people would rather just be in denial to cope with it. that allows them to continue having fun. i have found strength to use my voice and connect with others to start making the changes that would benefit us all. -
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 6:08 PMmore power to you dr. trix...
<<<<FUERZA>>>>
huge props for taking this one on.
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 7:20 PMExcellent personal essay. And remember the I Ching: All is Change.
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 7:59 PM
I will never understand how people give up their powers to other people. be happy in who you are. express yourself.
i would say if you are a person that is feeling oppressed by this scene, than i would say it has to do with your ego. let go of your inhibitions and be free. I know its easier said than done.
Why do people have the need to put others on pedestals? Because that is what we are trained to do from a young age through the media.
forget that bullshit and there wouldn't be any of these problems you speak of. just live and let live.
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Unsu...
"Women who Run with wolves"---"mujeres que corren con los LOBOS"
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 7:47 PM
I'm down for solutions:
(SOLUTIONS IS LOVE)
para all the muchachitas and muchachitos:
"Women who RUN with wolves "
by Pinkola Estes
READ THIS BOOK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
homestar.org/bryannan/estes.html
en español:
www.priceminister.es/offer/b...bro.html
**************************************************************************************************
dr. trix's:
Your English is so good !!!! for real,,, your capacity for painting with letters the party reality,
is muy excellente.
<<oh,,, uh... cruel fashion reality:--"beautiful but cruel"- >> is muy buena.
I just recovered my inspiration and enthusiasmo.
and BANG BANG sweet freaks...!!!!!!!!!
ujuuu!!!!!!!!!
BIIIIG BANG (and chicken feathers falling in da room)
five rainbow tears running in my face because so much laughing
y tres veces mas: BANG BANG... this is so GOOD... buenisimo,
even if, as usual, I'm running behind with my collection of dictionarios...
LOVE to dr. trix's and all da ugly and beautiful people, here my DREAM:
So there is this party in de futuro:
... and we have a great stage with all da west coast breaks/hip hop
feathers, fedora pedorra leather , body modifications... just next to the psyco pig stage
(...augrrrrr!!) with all da fluorescent Star Trek outfits, tie-dye and some ridiculous costume...
Suddenly because futuristic mysteries' consequences and great brain changes...
the CUMBIA stage appearssS --- ballenato, merengue, salsa and real talented
black doun doun ba african raw KARA KI KA RA KA!!!!
yeah dude... all the "sonidero crew": the constructors, dish washers, cookers and
fancy sabroso latino gangsters our generation too...
Miracles keep manifesting!!! the "cheese leather fedora tribe" likes cumbia and they are
trading their feathers for heavy dusty boots and enjoying, turning arounding amonging the arms
of nice gordito boy or gordita girl....
The wild afrikan cumbia crew run into the hip hop and delicious sexy low bpm, and hmmm bass heavy tracks ,
shaking their bodies in ridiculaz peacock poses, shinning with glitter and feeling every wonderful rhythmic
eclectic tune, almost flying like illegal fairies. Everything start to become a wonderful south north beat mess.
My grandfather have just to arrive to the lounge where atmospheric ambient space musica and
tremendous classical Prokofiev, Flamenco guitar and karl Jenkins strings. wait !!! everybody's
grand parents are just there in the lounge.... great, we have cookies and tea, we discuss about
the nice weather.
Next to the organic smoothie juice bar we have the grassy spicy tacos and popusas!!!
what?!!! I can't believe it!! crunchy fried crickets with lemon,
fat corn cake and healthy organic Thai food.
************************************************************************************************************
I really can't resonate with the plastic pink dark elaborated porno burning poses,
or with all the galactic cows clothes and dangerous jewelry & accessories,
neither with the tutu-ed faeries, or what ever
but as an artist and with my open heart, I tell you ---- **I love your art ** and I have a lot
of fun watching yu, and I enjoy it A LOT... a lotote
BUTTTTT
There is something that is overwhelming, separatist and sectarian,
and maybe, m a y b e, is not only about customs and fashionably matters
maybe, tal vez, it's about trying to really become c o m m u n i t y , not only with those of your own
specie but also with those that you can't even imagine that exist.
I think drugs is a BIG problem too. POR FAVOR DON'T TAKE DRUGS BABY FREAKS.
my message?
Je suis heureuse de constater que la liberte arrive comme une recompense
à la recherche de l'innocence et de la simplicite.
Et, a un tres fort desir de "sauter le plus haut possible"; d'oublier cette "attraction terrestre"
et a toutes sortes de tentations qu'apportent la souffrance.
(excuse my french)
a ha hahjajja dude i'm so happy to find out that people here is so great, and this kind of
forums are open to everybody. GR RRR r a c i a s
Dr. trixssss yu really have balls (is it correct to say that? I mean i'm just sayin that yu are
so valiant) your posting brought me up life and hope -esperanza- in this wonderfulin "community"
I wish my dream become truth.
: )
*
psss... I forgot the mariachis, le ballet afrikans, the congo tronix, the London philarmonic,
a warm river, free coconuts, piñatas, cuetes, muchos
dulces, all mis amigos, mi hermano mi mama...la la la.
I'll go to sleep very happy to night.... with a BIG COMBO BONG smile.
: ) : ) : ) : ) : ) : ) : ) : ) : ) : ) : ) : ) -
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Re: "Women who Run with wolves"---"mujeres que corren con los LOBOS"
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 10:29 PMGood observation, but I have been around since the beginning of the breaks scene, fuck...the beginning of the 'rave" scene, partying from 1991 until 2002 in NYC. If you don't think there has always been a hierarchy in this scene, you are crazy. Maybe it wasn't about dreads or gay ass clothing, but it was there.
Facts: Nothing has changed.
Sex, drugs, and Techno, baby!!!!
It's for the most part, the same old shit, with new faces.
Your thoughts are old.
Live and let live......do you not know what America is about???
You have taken an essay on American culture and have throw in the word "rave" between "American" & "culture"
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Re: "Women who Run with wolves"---"mujeres que corren con los LOBOS"
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 10:50 PMP.S.......Curious to know Lorin's thoughts on this, I searched your blog for his words, and what did I find???? Nothing by LorinThat maybe you lied to bring more attention to yourself???-------it's a possibility. Please explain , because surely you were not mistaken by some one else's name......
Inconsistencies like this render your thoughts and words invalid and deserves explanation. -
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Unsu...
Re: "Women who Run with wolves"---"mujeres que corren con los LOBOS"
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 10:59 PMhi there, actually lorin responded a number of times to the blog post in dr. trix's blog. check it out again... lots of good insight from lo.
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Re: "Women who Run with wolves"---"mujeres que corren con los LOBOS"
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 11:01 PMattention to myself? c'mon!?!?
lorin goes by "figment of your..." and has posted several times on the blog.
he is both wise and hilarious.
for realz. -
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Re: "Women who Run with wolves"---"mujeres que corren con los LOBOS"
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 11:52 PMOkay! So I've never been part of the West Coast rave scene experience, but I know the truth in what you are saying. I recently had to remove myself from a group of dancers because of this very sytemic problem. Seeing the discusting behavior of one of our members in her attempt to "climb the ladder" sickened me to the point of GET OUT! Alas, not so easy, the Hawaiian scene has much to be desired and is SUPER small. I realized I needed to disassociate myself from the system of "hot", but not remove myself from what I love, DANCE and MUSIC. Just because the scene is corrupt doesn't mean that you have to be. The question occured to me, why is it that you are attracted to this crowd and kind of music? It does seem to have a manipulative force that once you hear it you want MORE of it! HMMMM.....Lo have you been reading pscycological manupulation manuals? BE HOT AND SEXY!!! LISEN TO THE NECTAR!!!!!! MORE!!!!!!BUY!!!!!!!MORESEXYHOTMORESEXYHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -
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Re: "Women who Run with wolves"---"mujeres que corren con los LOBOS"
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 12:49 AMwhew! Insightful and well-thought out. ok. This just sounds like a microcosm for humanity in general. Mankind has always found ways to seperate themselves from each other. Through money, politics or religions - there has always been ways for us to seperate ourselves from the whole of ourselves through cliques, parties, tribes, castes, etc.... It seems like it's an inherent trait. I've seen this sorta separation in different scenes also, (SCI, DMB, Phish) where it becomes this "well who do you know? what drugs can you get? Dude, wher did you get those pants?" thing. So I see this as a natural progression. Anytime a group of people begin to enlarge in numbers, the more susceptable it becomes to perversion of the original philosophy/ inspiration of the original founding members of the scene and eventually fractals out into internal divisions.Granted I do not feel people need to exclude/shun/lookdown on one another based on hotness, money, beliefs, etc.. but individuals are different from each other. But hopefully individuals can have the mind to respect/ workwith/ coexist with those of greater or lesser money/ astetics/ power. -
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Re: "Women who Run with wolves"---"mujeres que corren con los LOBOS"
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 11:53 AMmarc,
separation will definitely occur. the point of the essay gets at how unproductive it is to separate ourselves based on appearances and $. wouldn't it be more productive to separate ourselves based on life philosophy, values, etc? but that's not what happens. our scene, like american culture/capitalism/media/fashion industry makes gross judgments based on appearance. i think it is possible to rise above what we have become in this infection of the dominant culture, be accepting of each other and then find deeper differences which will lead to people being closer some and not closer to others. -
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Re: "Women who Run with wolves"---"mujeres que corren con los LOBOS"
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 7:14 PM<wouldn't it be more productive to separate ourselves based on life philosophy, values, etc? but that's not what happens>
Dr.Trix
Maybe someone has got to this statement already, but I'm gonna respond. People DO seperate themselves from the whole based on life philosophies, values, (religions, ideologies, and the sort). That's just life. Honestly, there's nothing wrong with that. It's becomes problematic when beliefs begin blinding reason, though. That happens far too often. When an individual or individuals cannot respect another individual's or group's veiw on life/ view on politics/ theories on the universe/ etc.., that's generally about the time indiviuals or groups start treating their juxtaposed dissenter(s) like assholes. Now, I'm starting to get away from your inital point. But from what I gathered from your essay, you happened to notice at a festie a whole bunch of cliquiness prevelent. I don't know if a certain group or clique or a single person was rude to you. But barring that, I just think that seperating into smaller groups within a larger party is only natural. And you're absolutely right, it is unproductive to separate ourselves based on appearances and $. I'll even go as far as to say it is a juvenile asshole thing to do to shun/ look down/ demoralize anyone just because they have more or less money/ better or homelier looking genes/ fresher or scrubbier garb than another. And it is truth that we can rise above this mental affliction. It'll be some time before that, but it is still in the realm of possibilities.
Anyways, good topic. Have a good day and keep dancing
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Re: "Women who Run with wolves"---"mujeres que corren con los LOBOS"
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 9:33 AM>.....Lo have you been reading pscycological manupulation manuals?
What, you mean this?
www.boingboing.net/2007/09/...rtur.html
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Re: "Women who Run with wolves"---"mujeres que corren con los LOBOS"
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 8:56 AMlorin goes by "figment of your..." and has posted several times on the blog.
he is both wise and hilarious.
for realz.
Thanks for that bit of info....
Just playing devil's advocate.
p.s. darkstar.......
".....dreds and gay-ass clothing......."
how evolved. really.
Sorry I don't find this topic important enough to right an articulated short essay on it. I would not consider your self righteous rhetoric any more evolved. Funny thing is----the more evolved a scene becomes, the more distorted and perverted it becomes. Is being "evolved" a good thing in this case???? Do you really think being educated, compassionate, and respectful of others feelings is the same as being evolved??
Please. Who do think you're kidding??
hi there, actually lorin responded a number of times to the blog post in dr. trix's blog. check it out again... lots of good insight from lo.
I will. Thank you.
whew! Insightful and well-thought out. ok. This just sounds like a microcosm for humanity in general. Mankind has always found ways to seperate themselves from each other. Through money, politics or religions - there has always been ways for us to seperate ourselves from the whole of ourselves through cliques, parties, tribes, castes, etc.... It seems like it's an inherent trait. I've seen this sorta separation in different scenes also, (SCI, DMB, Phish) where it becomes this "well who do you know? what drugs can you get? Dude, wher did you get those pants?" thing.
My point exactly. It would be nice to come up with some original thoughts, if you really want to do some sort of study on American culture, Dr. Also, the underground has been around a long time. It wasn't about PLUR in the beginning, it was about sex and drugs. Remember the days going out to clubs when everyone was on E and seeing random people fucking??? I do. -
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Re: "Women who Run with wolves"---"mujeres que corren con los LOBOS"
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 10:54 AMmy first post had nothing to do with the second.........i honestly could have done without the second one, and i wish i would have. -
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Re: "Women who Run with wolves"---"mujeres que corren con los LOBOS"
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 10:59 AMMy bad as well for poor selection of words....
No hard feelings..... -
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Re: "Women who Run with wolves"---"mujeres que corren con los LOBOS"
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 12:21 PMalmost 2o replies in 24 hours! thats pretty high, when i saw this yesterday i thought " now that threads gonna go off"
I also remember the random sex acts filling up the coed bathrooms or halls, and the gauntlet of drug pushers youd walk thru as u entered the warehouse or wherever. my first rave before they were even called raves I was in highschool and that single nite i styaed sober but never remained the same. The same vibe was there that Dr Trix is concerned with. Call it milk and blood, shiva and shakti, day and night..... the whole dynamic is combining differences. The music, visuals, drugs , etc is to exceed your normal senses, sensory overload. In that state one can let go and find themself unaffected by anything and this is bliss if u ask me.this is being centered. Im not saying be aloof or unconcerned, just empathetic for all and how it is now. Most parents arent trying to get their kids to run before theuy can walk. I use that analogy since this 'coming together' that we do amidst the fat beats, is not unlike an indoctrination to real life amongst the cosmos and beyond. Call it learning to fly and im not being metaphorical. The grateful Dead had the same shit goin on , where the older hippys were always sayin it was so much better before us newbs showed up and ruined everything. The breaks scene is just that, breakin out of the box, breakin up the concrete, mashin up ur emotions, breakin up is hard to do. I personally have been abducted by the drum and bass sound, whoich seems to be less dramatic and more appocalyptic, like beyond drama, real. all genres have their place, depending on the crowd and what results their going for. The psytrancers are all good cuz their not in their body very much :), the movements are simple so you can get in real easy and join the collective vibe which is naked and intimate. In love, J D
"people say this aint right, i jus find another place that i can dance all night"
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 1:34 AMgood lord, darkstar, that's a bit harsh (and hasty), no?
whats funny, is that of all the responses, i think lorin had some of the most relevant and fair things to say. they echo my own feelings on the subject so much that i have very little to add to it.
adam put it very nicely, as well........obviously, yes, it is easier said than done, but i will agree that one does have much more power over some of these things than they may realize. it's a great thing that this dialog is happening, and i think stephen is quite brave (or audacious, depending on how you look at it) putting it out there like this, but to come at from the other end, it's worth noting that our insecurities and projections can often be responsible for a lot of unnecessary heartache. if you come at a person or situation already assuming that you're disliked or inferior (when in fact, that's not the case...and it usually isnt...), how else do you expect them to return that energy? and yea, a lot of times ego does factor in more than we're aware or will admit.
should we pay more attention to these kinds of dynamics and our role in them? yeah, i think so. should we pay more attention to things like compassion, kindness, and openness in general? of course, always........but the fact remains, when you're on the other side of those things being neglected, and you do potentially feel ignored, snubbed, intimidated, or anything like that, remember this: a) if someone is truly rude, unkind, snobby, or just generally unsavory, then why do you want to spend your time and energy on them anyway, or even better, b) consider that they've got a whole world of unknown waters to chart in their own mind, in their own world, and maybe- just maybe- it has zero to do with you. you may not have ever shown up on their radar......just as many don't show up on yours. and is it intentional? most likely, no, it's just the way things go. it could all change in the blink of an eye. i don't care how cheesy, or trite, or oversimplified it sounds: you ARE beautiful, you ARE worthy, you ARE loved, you DO have gifts, you DO bring something to the table. but you have to figure out the specifics on your own first, and really know it and own it. does that take time? hell yes it does, but if you stick with it, it's worth it. if you hold fast to that, it ceases to matter what other people who are or aren't in your life may or may not think. and i should point out, that i am absolutely speaking from first-hand experience...........no, it's never "easy", but it gets *easier*.............
anyway..........no matter how you feel about all this stuff...........i'm glad people are talking about it.
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 1:37 AMp.s. darkstar.......
".....dreds and gay-ass clothing......."
how evolved. really. -
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 12:01 PMmoz,
i know you hear where i'm at, but the point of the essay is parallel to how we can teach ourselves to cope with a social system that does not value individuality, but sets ideals of appearances and favors the wealthy (because they have more opportunity to meet those ideals).
i agree with all of your statements about how we can cope, but those ways won't change the system, unless we come together against the system and work towards being less discriminatory based on appearances.
for example, i believe people of color can live happy lives in the united states, by being compassionate towards their oppressors, find beauty in themselves, etc but that doesn't make the oppressive system go away. i'm interested in exploring ways to recognize that there is an oppressive system, acknowledge that we are susceptible to being influenced by that system, acknowledge that we perpetuate the system, and find out ways to dissolve it.
some of these ideas come from watson who has a great blog post exploring what we can do within ourselves, but unless we are all (or at least most) doing the above, the system will stay in place, and we will continue to cope, rather than revolutionize our lives. -
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 1:36 PMIf anything our culture and scene values individuality more than any other scene i have witnessed.
Also you really need to get off this whole, favors the wealthy, about this scene. because this scene and the so called people on the top are anything but wealthy, but hard working creative individuals.
There is no oppressive system in our scene whatsoever, the only opressors in our scene are people who oppress or repress themselves.
the more and more this dialog continues the more and more i find it flawed.
Working at 1015 i have worked with every scene in the city, so i have seen scenes that are very elitists and VIP, where you are no one unless you roll in with a few hotties, and spend a few grand on table and bottle service, where the sole objective is to be elevated above everyone else. I see that as classism..
Not our scene, no way.. maybe egos here and there but definitely no classism.
And to the people who feel the need to spend, consume, all their money to look or be like someone else. look inside yourself and find the beauty that you are...... LET IT ALL HANG OUT.........
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 1:37 PMwhen i said it i meant the Essay just to clarify. -
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 2:05 PMThere's only one point I really disagree with, and that is that the psytrance scene is more open to newcomers or strangers than other scenes. As a long-time, non-integral member of the SF psy circuit, I can tell you that there are hierarchies and divisions there, as well. They may not be based on outward appearance like the feather hat mafiosi, but they do exist, and can be every bit as snobby as what you've experienced with the breaks folks.
ps - I hate hat-bound feathers, having been poked in the eye and swatted in the face numerous times by said accoutrements. Attention feather wearers: if you're inconsiderate enough to ignore or rebuff me when I ask that you re-position your feather out of the faces of innocent bystanders, don't be surprised if I, in turn, am inconsiderate enough to clip it off. -
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 2:37 PMi'm saying that the beauty that hard working artists and designers slave over to create is easier to achieve if you're rich, than if you have to slave over it. you can just go to the tribal market and buy it, rather than spend 20 hours a day for a week making it. that's the economic classism i'm talking about.
i hear you and you are right if you are rich, and i am saying there is no rich class in our scene, everyone is working hard for what they have or want.
Is there egos at parties.. sometime more than others. do i let someones ego effect me. No... becuase in esssence we all have issues (our own egos) we are working with within ourselves. Is there too much drugs in dance music? Yes.. especially ones that take people inside themselves too much..
For instance i will not smoke pot at a party,(or actually i dont even smoke it or cigarettes anymore since BM). because when i would i would go within and be very introverted. now take all these other substances people take at parties,, lsd, k, ghb, cocaine, etc...
Is it possible people want to only interact with people they are already comfortable with. I know when i was doing substances at BM i didnt feel like communicating with people outside my immeadiate circle of friends because of the state of mind i was in..
Does this mean this is classism. NO... It means take less drugs.
I have had people come up to me after i DJ high as all hell.. crunching their mouth etc. wanting to tell me their life stories, hug me, kiss me etc. 9/10 i will probably brush them off, as politely as i know how. I perosnalyy would rather have a genuine interaction.
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 2:38 PMexactly Stephen. Our scene is not so black and white as you are trying to put it.. there are to many other factors here than to just boil it down to classism etc... -
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 4:17 PMoh, i'm not trying to boil it only down to vanity and classism, i'm just saying those are significant influences over the way people interact with each other. -
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 6:07 PM> how unproductive it is to separate ourselves based on appearances and $. wouldn't it be more productive to separate ourselves based on life philosophy, values, etc?
now. without negating your point that we shouldn't be less friendly to others based on appearances, i do want to argue about a part of the statement above. (and yes, i've been getting at this for a few posts now...)
i believe that we DO separate ourselves *primarily* based on things more along the lines of life philosphophy and values (and interests, and goals) than we do on appearances and money.
it's only after/as we've separated out into the groups based on values and goals that we start to create group identifiers involving appearances. i'll write more on your blog, and i mentioned this on watson's thread, but there are obvious differences between different groups that have *nothing* to do with appearances or money. (le duh.) groups in our scene have formed around drugs, around dance style and dancefloor position, around interest in throwing types of events, and around common interests outside of the dancefloor such as visionary art, clothing design, performance, fire, and various intellectual interests.
i continue to think that money is a red herring, stephen. just because people's clothes are expensive doesn't mean that those people have money. i absolutely agree with adam, matty, and others who continue to point out that many--if not most--of the people who are allegedly at the top of the class system are NOT moneyed. the people i know who are in those groups, the designers and promoters and djs i'm friends with, are NOT RICH. period.
blah blah blah... i KNOOOW that you're just going to point out again that that's all fine and dandy but that people should still be friendly to folks outside their own group. and i agree. BUT-- i wanted to make my point anyway. because group formation is neato :) -
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 9:59 PM> i believe that we DO separate ourselves *primarily* based on things more along the lines of life philosphophy and values (and interests, and goals) than we do on appearances and money. <
I would say that outward appearances often parallel the display of life philosophy and values (net worth notwithstanding), and that the separation of peer groups cannot be based primarily on a value system, with a secondary sub-segregation based on appearance, as they are intrinsically linked. However, whether the appearance follows the values or vice versa is up to each individual member of a peer group.
Of course, there will always be exceptions...like a hipster hippie, or a rasta b-boy, but for the most part I don't feel that your belief system and your appearance can be distilled into primary and secondary (ad infinitum) degrees of segregation. -
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Thu, October 4, 2007 - 10:27 AMlinked, for sure, in many cases.
chicken and egg situation, sure.
i'm just pointing out that it's not all about appearances. and i've got examples in my head of situations in which appearance ends up being secondary that are leading me to the thought i presented, but don't want to tangent here.
ooo, yummy brains... i heart these conversations!!
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 2:10 PMAdam I'm really agreeing/identifying with with your comments. I'm one of those people who is inside themselves a little too much on the dancefloor.
Yes, potent plant partially contributes to this. But mostly it's just my personality. I'm shy. Actually, I'm a turtle. Those rose colored glasses I sport are my protection, not corrective. But I also do some very serious yoga/isolations to the music. This is something that's very personal and also physically slow and small in dimensional space - sometimes I don't think people know I'm dancing under my clothes...
I interact with people a bit more with high-quality live music, just based on the nature of the gigs. And because most of my DJ dancing is more of a personal yoga, I get most of my people-connection dancing in formal group improv dance classes. Making a serious commitment to this type of dance has become an invaluable, treasured part of my life, and is a very different experience than going to a dance party. I've also discovered that I love sewing as a hobby and I'm finding that it's a lot more fun to make costum-y apparel than clothes to go to work in. So if I'm dressed up it's because I enjoyed the process of making it, not because I think I'm better than someone else or in some kind of a different "league."
I think it's OK to focus on the music and its relation your own body/head. Primarily I'm there for me, and you should be there for you. But I also think someone like myself does contribute a lot to the dance floor. I know dancefloor etiquette, I know (and follow) the "rules" of the venue/door, I won't stab you with my elbows, I provide plenty of vibe (even if it moves small and slow and doesn't look you directly in the eye), and I know I belong where I am.
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 1:54 PMoh adam, i thought we were getting somewhere.
i believe the beauty that the hard working fashion designers and artists have created through their sets the standard of what is idealized beauty in the scene, to no fault of their own. i believe that mainstream american cultural values of beauty as propagated through the media/hollywood have influence everyone about what the idealized standards of beauty are - all of us, including these creative and talented individuals who create such beautiful art through fashion. there used to be more beauty through individuality in our scene, now we all value a specific kind of vanity, that has been handed down to us from the mainstream, unlike ever before. the idealized beauty has an individual spin on it through the creative folks in the scne (unless people are just copying what's trendy, but that's not what i'm talking about), but still, vanity is there. and we all admire it. the creators of it, those who purchase it and even those who marvel at it. in our admiration, i think we all value those who are closest to this idealized beauty. we spend our resources, whether its hard work and all our free time to create it or our $s to live up to the ideal image. finally, i'm saying that the beauty that hard working artists and designers slave over to create is easier to achieve if you're rich, than if you have to slave over it. you can just go to the tribal market and buy it, rather than spend 20 hours a day for a week making it. that's the economic classism i'm talking about. -
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 2:07 PMstephen, with all due respect, you seem to be speaking for a lot of people who perhaps don't want to be spoken for. -
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 3:29 PMrobert,
i agree on a conscious level, that i may be speaking for a lot of people who don't want to be spoken for.
however, on an unconscious level, i believe most of our ways of seeing the world are shaped by the culture in which we live.
and that's the level that i'm talking about.
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Can I get a witness??
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 1:45 PMWell gang, I think what's really happening is your typical homo sapien tribal identity syndrome, meaning if you're not from my tribe, you're not worth my time. We are kind of in a neo-tribal rebirth right now, and rave culture has really jettisoned an archaic revival of sorts with music, psychadelics, even clothing...If you look back to the raver days of old here in the Bay Area and fast forward to today, you'll see that we're kind of taking some steps backwards as we start to slip into the cult of personality paradigm, where now that our music scene is well established, it's about being seen in the scene. It hapens in every kind of scene. I saw this kind of stuff happen in the rock scene down south 15 years ago after our little garage band scene suddenly became dubbed the next Seattle by MTV and my friends' bands started getting signed. Granted the rock scene then and there was a far simpler beast. Sex, drugs, rock n' roll-mosh pits, booze and flooze. Man, I had to leave cuz it was just so damned shallow and everyone began climbing over each other to get that next big record deal. As a musician trying to hold my band together, the breaking point for me was when my drummer left my band to join another cuz he was convinced that band was gonna be the next big thing-in the end, they went nowhere. That was the breaking point for me there, thus my exodus to NorCal where I fell in the Wicked and Dimension 7 crews. I flocked to this part of the coast cuz I knew there was Spirit in the music and parties. Man, I was floored by the Vibe, the Sound, and most importantly, THE PEOPLE.
Flash forward 12 years and now we have a very segmented and diversified scene here. Things now seem to be blowing up again. Lorin is on OM records and playing to far larger crowds. You've got the Glitch Mob blowing up and rocking bigger stages. All kinds of our peeps are making their way out into the big, bad world. Everyone is jockeying for position and now the music and dance are being forgotten cuz we're getting all distracted by the cult of personality "look what I'm wearing" kind of paradigm. It's getting harder and harder for me to really find a groove on the dancefloor with all this attitude and negative energy flying around. I applaud Stephen for bringing this up, but I think we need to really scrape away a lot of layers to really get to the core of what's happening here. Are we just spoiled brats becoming bored with ourselves? Do we have it too good here in the Bay Area??
I'll close with something that happened to me this weekend. I worked my first gay party ever at 1015 on Sunday night, the big Folsom Street Fair afterparty put on by the Real Bad crew. Admittedly, I was a bit freaked out about working a party so out of the norm for me. The idea of all those huge, leather clad men jammed in there..daunting to say the least. If you've spent some time at any gay parties (think T-dance at The End Up) as a straight male, you know what I'm talking about. It can get a little hectic from time to time...Anyhow, as soon as I got there, I found out at the door that the party had sold 2500 presale tix at $75. People were gonna pay $90 at the door. All money going to two charities. Impressive. Now that's community. Navigating through that front room with all my gear took 5 minutes for me to get the booth. It was quite a scene. As soon as I got all set up and in the groove, I never stopped dancing up in the booth, nor did I ever step out of the booth cuz it was so packed in there-I have never scene 1015 like that before. The vibe in that place was OFF THE HOOK. People were having the time of their lives. The promoters were AWESOME and even tipped me at the end of the night. Nobody cared what anybody was wearing. It was all about the Dance. It made me kind of sad for our scene, though, cuz why can't we have that kind of Vibe and Energy on the dancefloor? Is it because so many of us have become self-obsessed narcissists wrapped up in some of ridiculous game of elitism? If the queens can rock it like that, so should the ravers. Nuff said.
People, we are all in this together. Don't ever forget that. Leave your attitude at the door, cuz that shit is parking its ass all over the dancefloor. Let's get back down to business and make it about us and the Music again. Just dressing the part doesn't make you any more special than anyone else. Just knowing this person or that person doesn't make you any cooler than you really are or aren't. Yeah, sure, this will never be like they were back in the Full Moon warehouse breakin days of the early 90's, but gosh darn it, it doesn't have to be so damned snooty and exclusive.
Be good to each other and stop taking yourself so seriously.
Later.
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 3:18 PMif i may quote...
"You ain't artsier than me
cause you got sideburns and a vintage tee
I said you ain't artsier than me
cause you pluck a guitar
that ain't fuckin' bizarre
[...]
You ain't artsier than me
cause you chop up breaks
and you dig in the crates
You ain't artsier than me
you just a trendy lesbian
dreadlocked thespian
You ain't artsier than me
cause you make weed brownies and knit wool hats
You ain't artsier than me
you pseudo-elitist old school sap"
"What we really need is some more cats like me
Spend a day in my shoes, you might just agree
They got lava on the in-sole and ice in the heel
Kept the toe made of steel to keep it blue-collar-real
I got my people's minds made up like: Look, we gon' eat
Put in work like the Bay Bridge and stay to the streets
But not like on the grind or posted up on the block
More like self-determination, so less niggas gettin' shot"
~Grouchie Grouch and LuckyIAM -
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 10:39 AM~~Politics of dancing~~
Can’t we just dance and love each other as individual beings with different dreams and tastes?
Dance together regardless of our sex, religion, background, front ground, left ground, right ground……
What we are wearing, what we are not wearing, what color our skin is??? Who your mama is who
My mama is???What kind of dressing you like with your salad or do you want soy or milk with your chi??
How you decide to express yourself!!!! Whether you want to wear the same clothes all year long or wear nothing at all. Paint yourself green or wear black all the time, or decorate your outfits…….
Does this stuff really matter at the end of the day??NO,NO,NO,NO
Are we kind? Are we sensitive to other people’s emotions and feelings? Do we except others as they are?? Are we coming from the heart? Are we compassionate? Are we grateful? Are we living the life that we desire?
Are we happy? If not what are we doing to change that??
What matters is what is underneath all of that. Our true selves, when we can be in peace in our own skins.
When we can look someone in the eye, give them a big hug and say it’s gonna be oh right.
Working together is the KEY, SEPERATION is the ENEMY
Government & religions try to separate us enough
May we all be fulfilled.....
Blessed be….
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Unsu...
Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 2:35 PM -
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 3:02 PMWhat does Amy Whitehouse have to do with this conversation?
Are you saying everyone needs rehab? -
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The Techno Vikings are coming for us.
Wed, October 10, 2007 - 4:17 PMAll of you can laugh and cry and talk all you want, but regardless of anything now is the time for all of us to come together as brothers and sisters because there will soon be an invasion. The Techno Vikings are coming, and they are coming for us, they will destroy all Plur, they do not care about feathers, or hats, or anything at all, anything except for total domination of our scene.
I am listening to internet HARD house, PSYTRANCE and rocking my bod to prepare for the horde's immanent arrival.
www.youtube.com/watch -
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Tribes, Culture, and Elitism
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 12:21 PMThis is a great topic, as it makes us look at ourselves as well as at others. I feel like I have a certain perspective as an outsider since I have only associated with this scene since the 2006 Burning Man and suffer from being
Damn Old
Not Burning Hot
Not Rich
Yet, I feel like I have a certain Spirit and I have Love. I can certainly relate to the dynamic expressed in the original post. I’ve been thinking of it since I had a conversation with a woman friend who is totally hot and totally fashionable, who yet said she felt a cool distance coming from a certain crowd (who looked just like her) that she described at the “Galactic Supermodels” It put me on the lookout for elitism and thinking of this subject. What I’ve noticed so far:
1. The further the distance you look at another tribe, the more elitist they look. The more I was able to hang out with different crowds. The more wonderful and cool I found them to be. I found it hard to find real elitists up close, only from a distance.
2. That all tribes are filled with individuals with varying strengths and weaknesses. Some have the vision and heart to see beneath the surfaces and some feel insecure and need to protect their social status through association.
3. There is a certain element of protecting personal space and time in running with your own tribe. A friend who is in a famous band might have an invisible aura of being hard to approach because hundreds of folks would enjoy cozying up to him, and that would make life hard. Really beautiful women can often feel safe and unmolested when then stick within their tribe which values respectful and consensual connections.
4. Our projections of insecurity and rejection create that reality in our social interactions. We connect easier with those who we expect will accept us.
5. Whether in others, or ourselves, our false illusion of personal identity and status (positive or negative) is a slave master that limits our love and joy.
I remember being on this art car at BM 2006 where they were turning riders away due to the fact they could only take so many folks and they had a big camp. They were beautiful folks and I'm sure some felt rejected. Yet I saw these same folks go out of their way and take extra time to get help for total "uncool" strangers that they found confused or dehydrated.
I’m grateful and blessed to have met such amazing people within the subcultures I frequent. It takes time and openness. The more my acquaintances know me, the more I’m trusted and become friends.
I am torn by the demands of fashion. I hate the idea of conforming to fit in with those I like to hang with. On the other hand, it seems that folks look for these external cues of fashion to affirm that a person is acquainted with the values and culture of a certain tribe. It feels safer for a woman to know that if she meets a guy with a warm hug and kiss on the cheek, that he won’t follow her around like a dog in heat for the rest of the night.
So I strike a balance. I find some feathers in nature when she blesses me with some, buy some interesting fabric on my world travels, but won’t wear leather pants. Fact is, all cultures have fashion cues, even the jeans and T-shirts crowd. The enlightened ones in any group stay open and value the expressions that are different than their own norm.
Peace and Love
Karl "Baba" -
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Re: Tribes, Culture, and Elitism
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 12:35 PMThanks, Karl. Well put.
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Re: Tribes, Culture, and Elitism
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 3:17 PMThat was the best response to this topic I've seen in any of the locations I've come across it. Acknowledging that there IS an issue while yet making fair determinations as to the potential underlying reasons and/or causes.
As one who's put in my fair share of "feather bashing," you've certainly given me a fair bit to consider, Karl. Thank you.
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Re: Tribes, Culture, and Elitism
Fri, October 12, 2007 - 2:35 PMkarl, i agree completely, especially regarding two points:
"The more I was able to hang out with different crowds. The more wonderful and cool I found them to be. I found it hard to find real elitists up close, only from a distance."
there are very few people i'm friends with in 'elite' groups who i actually find to be elitist.
"It feels safer for a woman to know that if she meets a guy with a warm hug and kiss on the cheek, that he won’t follow her around like a dog in heat for the rest of the night."
this is a really big deal and important point for some of us. it can only explain some interactions, but in those cases it explains a lot. i am VERY uncomfortable with unwanted/disrespectful attention and affection from men. i am therefore unwilling to show overt friendliness to men i've never seen or met unless they are in some way displaying that they know the rules that i'm used to with regard to social interactions. the two easiest ways to display this: a) a mutual friend or b) clothing.
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Re: The Techno Vikings are coming for us.
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 5:12 PMHAVE ~U~
EVER
seEn
AAAA
YeLOW
MOON
?
BEFORE?
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Re: The Techno Vikings are coming for us.
Thu, October 11, 2007 - 5:13 PMUhhhh....stay on target. -
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Social Skills
Fri, October 12, 2007 - 12:14 PMElitism..real or preceived..is like many problems, has an aspect of Understanding and an aspect of Action/Solution.
To address the Action/Solution side of things, I'd like to suggest that:
Even if we feel like we need to limit our circle of friends and protect our time and personal space, we can always be aware of other people's feelings and act more sensitively, honing our social skills to manage our life more compassionately.
Creating general harmony and cooperation among the different subcultures in the Music scene may serve us well if our political/energy/environmental situation were to deteriorate. We can create power if we have some solidarity.
Social skills are like musical skills, we often have some inborn talent but we can always improve and refine. Let's keep looking at ways to be welcoming and accepting without opening ourselves to an onslaught of sexual attention, or loss of personal space and time.
Perhaps even being aware of the issue is enough to make for a kinder-gentler coexistance of subcultures.
Unless you just don't care for other's feelings, in which case you can form a tribe with those feel likewise.
More Love and good feelings are good for Us and good for the World. It just makes life sweeter.
Peace and love
karl
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Re: Social Skills
Fri, October 12, 2007 - 2:30 PMThanks for the kind words. It's not just advice for the beautiful people. Fact is that most of us have a class that we feel cooler than, better looking than, and so on. Let's be human with them.
Cause we're all going to get old.
and Our looks are all going to fade.
and we may reach a point where money can't help us.
But we have a heart forever, and that's where the sweetness of life is experienced.
Peace
karl
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Re: Social Skills
Tue, October 16, 2007 - 12:33 PMKarl...
Thank you for addressing so many of the points I was becoming frustrated with in this discussion. I liked in your previous post- how you lessened the generalizations used as descriptors towards certain groups.
I'd like to add.... many of these things are instinctual- we are all human. Fitting in, belonging, pecking order, attraction, disinterest.
I actually scoffed at the word "Oppression" which I feel is mis-used in this discussion and is a huge overstatement
.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppression
Oppression is the negative outcome experienced by people targeted by the cruel exercise of power in a society or social group. It is particularly closely associated with nationalism and derived social systems, wherein identity is built by antagonism to the other. The term itself derives from the idea of being "weighted down."
There are "real" oppressed people in other countries who might agree...
I think you'd be hard-pressed to honestly plug this definition into this conversation. I don't know about you... but I don't believe anyone in our community is "targeting", being "cruel" or outright "antagonizing" anyone- or being for that matter "oppressed". People ignore you everyday. They have too- we are overstimulated as a race. I believe it's only the longing to wanting a certain outcome/expectations that makes one "believe" they have been wronged- and which justifies their negativity towards the party. Good example of the the "rock star"- which everyone wants a piece of... but there isn't enough to go around.
subject "A" tries to engage subject "B". Subject "B" chooses not to engage- for whatever reason (which they are entitled to- w/o question) subject "A" has negative emotions towards subject "B"
hmm- I have to ask.... when it comes down to it, who's really putting out the "real" negative energy vs. of the "perceived" negative energy here?
just some thoughts. oh & btw... wearing clothes just to "fit in"? Wear clothes that you like and that make YOU feel good- that's self-confidence.
*and I haven't read the whole conversation- it's WAY too long... I just saw some points that I felt like addressing.
cheers all-
a
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Unsu...
Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Fri, October 12, 2007 - 8:01 PMWhat an interesting discussion this has become! It's obvious that there is some separation between peoples attending festies, but I have to challenge your assumption that said separation is based on socio-economic status.
Looking at my ‘group’ (which, I suppose would be classified as “beautiful people from the future”) I see varied levels of income, but very little that I would deem “rich”. Many people that do the festie circuit each summer can afford to because we have chosen to make this community our livelihood; some of us have to live in a tour van instead of a home to do this, some (such as myself) will spend the winter sewing (and attending full time university, and working a matrix job) so that the summer can be spent touring. Many “beautiful people from the future” have the same income of those who feel that they are “less” (and may I scream in the face of anyone who feels that they are “less” that they are not, that we all have differences, and that those who matter will love you for those differences) and simply choose to spend it differently. Also, because many of these “BPFTF” are vendors of some sort, they trade with each other, thus acquiring said “gay ass” clothing.
Furthermore, I would like to call to attention that not all of us import from Bali ( “couture clothing, custom leather, and those who more or less keep the tribal markets and bazaars (and the poor artists of Bali) in business.”) and that said unimported goods are so expensive because we place some value on our time (e.g. one utility belt = 30 dollars material plus 5 hours construction, plus travel costs is at least 100 dollars). The “expensiveness” of our products is based on American labor values, and we all know how admirable these are.
Finally “Trancers… smile at each other and dance with each other.” Unfortunately (allow me to emphasize and reiterate), not all dancers (especially women) feel safe in this oversexed culture smiling and dancing with random person (dude). Case in point: during Lorin’s set at LIB this year, I waited for a half an hour for someone to get off the elevated platform (about 10x10 feet) so I could dance on it. When a girl who could be deemed equally “hot” or “hotter” than myself got off, I got up. I was so excited that I smiled at the dude dancing next to me, who immediately began attempting to hump me, dancing in my 2 x 1 foot space on the edge of this minimum 3 foot platform platform. I told him to stop and in his drug haze/machismo he wouldn’t. I got a couple in between him and me, but he wheedled over and continued attempting to hump me, almost knocking me off again. I grabbed his arms and told him to stop. He pushed me off the platform (but, happily, into the front row). I don’t smile at people I don’t know when dancing anymore. Sorry to be unfriendly. I do, however, smile at those who I recognize from many other events (whom I suppose would be the “BPFTF”).
Yes, there is separation, but throwing all of one group in a bag and calling them evil (think Bush and Arabs) is not the way to understand it. But, case well made, darlin’ keep us thinkin’! -
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Fri, October 12, 2007 - 8:56 PMI think...that Lorin doesn't play trance. -
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Sat, October 13, 2007 - 2:43 PMKionenia anyone?? ;)
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Unsu...
Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Sat, October 13, 2007 - 2:47 PMYes, I am fully aware that Lorin doesn't play trance. Trancers were being portrayed as an ideal group in the larger whole of electronic music people, I was evincing why some people are not so friendly. -
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Sat, October 13, 2007 - 2:56 PMI'm not going to try to defend psyheads as a group, but I was under the impression that a large percentage of the population at Symbiosis WASN'T from that community, which is partly what catalyzed this thread. How are you able to tell that the fellow behaving poorly was a trancer, and not from another of the communities that attended? Is it because he WASN'T wearing feathers or leather?
I'm just curious as to what criteria you used to base your assessment of that individual's group membership. -
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Sat, October 13, 2007 - 6:51 PMBeat snobbery is just as prevalent in trance as it is anywhere else... -
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> Beat snobbery is just as prevalent in trance <
Mon, October 15, 2007 - 9:07 AMI never said it wasn't, and in fact I wholeheartedly agree with you. My point, if I may quote myself, was "I'm just curious as to what criteria you used to base your assessment of that individual's group membership." -
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Re: > Beat snobbery is just as prevalent in trance <
Mon, October 15, 2007 - 10:23 AMPablo, i love it when you quote yourself.
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Unsu...
Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Tue, October 23, 2007 - 9:33 PMI was never assessing what "group' he was from, I was stating that (from my experiences and those of my fellow females) we generaly do not associate with any unknown males. I was quoting the original essay as a basis for my comments, not saying psytrancer males are all arses. I don't know how to "tell" a trancer from anyone else, maybe the original author is the one you should ask about that distinction.
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Fri, October 12, 2007 - 10:19 PMSeriously. I have this problem all the time, I'm minimally friendly with somebody on the dance floor and suddenly he's humping me and following me around. I don't make eye contact with unknown guys on the dance floor, not because I'm trying to be rude, REALLY, but just because I'm there to enjoy the music, not fend off unwanted advances all night. If folks would simply be friendly that would be WONDERFUL, I'm not antisocial, but so many people try to use the dancefloor as a place to pick up women. I'm so not there for that and it's a really annoying distraction.
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Re: Out with the PLUR and in with the Classism
Thu, November 8, 2007 - 9:20 AM
This has been the best reading time ive ever spent on tribe. I wanted to thank everyone for expressing such deep thinking in wrapped in beautiful words.
Ive bounce around different "scenes" and they all seem to be the "same" in sense. As long as we just love ourselves fully. Even in the sting cheese crowd there was sepration but less then any other ive been apart of.
Together we can manifest anything we want.
Keep shinning and thank you again.
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a spiritual perspective
Thu, October 18, 2007 - 8:28 PMI apologize for this anonymous post. I am a little shy about posting my spirituality in public forums, versus one on one interactions.
TO THE ILLUSION OF A COOL HEIRARCHY
Remember: We are all spiritual beings having a human experience.
Perhaps I am in this “scene,” have created projections of a “cool” hierarchy and am in this discussion on tribe right now as part of my karmic destiny to further my awakening to unity consciousness and to understanding that we are all one. I am now ready to cut through this illusion of separation.
I am a “cool” enlightened spiritual being. I remember my true higher self right now. And next time I am in the illusion that there is anything but love in my self-created reflection in the form of another person, then I remember that they are just mirroring an aspect of myself that I need to heal. If I am not feeling the love in the way that I would like, then I look at how I am not giving the love. Perhaps I go up to that person who is triggering me and thank them for making me aware of the space that I need to heal and tell them I love them. Then I see what kind of response I get. Every moment, I try to remember that there is only love and anything I experience beyond love is an illusion that I must break through. (I am using I statements instead of you statements as you are me.)
On the flip side, if someone were to come up to me and say that they are triggered by me and that they don’t think I like them or that I give off an air of snobbishness, then I would stand in stillness with this person in recognition of our unity and higher love. At the same time, this does not mean that a day-to-day friendship in the way you define it would flourish. I often stand alone in my sovereign state of wholeness.
And if I want to know someone more, I can express that desire and at the same time, understand that this other person may not go further into friendship with me for many reasons which would not then conditionally mean that I would love them any less or trigger me to love myself any less. I understand as well that someone’s aloofness means many things beyond someone thinking they are too cool. I can change my reaction and perspective on the situation at any time to paint the reality differently. Ultimately, I am whole with myself.
Fashion as a Symbolic Language
Clothes are a symbolic language of communication and in our tribe, I think that many deeper spiritual truths are expressed in many of the designs and styles. What does the fedora symbolize, the tutu, the feather, or the whole sexy tribal look symbolize?
Let’s take the feather, what does it communicate? Why do people in our tribe resonate with the feather? To me, I like to think that it is our subconscious recognition and desire to awaken to our bird tribe lineage, our spirit, our higher self and ultimately our oneness. Perhaps I subconsciously connect with other people who wear feathers because I subconsciously think that they desire the same awakening that I do. This does not mean that I think you are not cool or less awake for not wearing feathers. That is the “lack” paradigm. It just means I resonate with those that wear feathers and at the same time, I resonate with you for wearing your heart and vulnerability on your sleeve, on your face, in your eyes.
What does dressing “hot” in the context of tribal style symbolize? To me, it symbolizes the awakening and acceptance of our raw primal sexual energy and perhaps our subconscious desire to awaken our kundalini and sensual bodies, to embrace the divine feminine, and understand the path of the senses as a root to enlightenment versus the more dominant, male-centered approach of denying desire or the senses. I intuitively feel this awakened in me as I begin to dress this way myself when for so long I shunned the images of beauty projected in the mass media and turned away from enhancing myself.
Beauty and beautiful clothes are an attracting force and clothes can be used to draw people in and hopefully upon drawing someone in, I can be present to their existence on this planet at this time during this great awakening and in my presence reflecting their higher presence, we can further awaken together. As our consciousness shifts to reflections of unity and come-unity, we are then more able to connect with others to make the sustainable changes we need to make for this planet.
If I did not wear the clothes I resonate with because I didn’t want to look too good or too cool for fear of intimidating someone else or having them think I thought of myself as too cool, then I would not be shining my light/my consciousness. I would be hiding my light due to fear. Or hiding my light due to guilt that I have access to these clothes and others don’t. Fear and guilt do not serve my higher self.
Ultimately, I do not need the clothes to shine my light. My presence is enough. And at the same time, we have fashion, we have art, we have music. We are creators and I have the ability to express my consciousness through fashion that I resonate with, through dancing to music that I resonate with, etc. Fashion just happens to cost more to make and buy.
So the problem comes when I want to express myself in a way that is too expensive for my budget. Again, this just creates more awareness in me on how to develop that expression through my eyes and spirit. Sometimes I need to wear corporate clothes and yet my tribe always recognizes me as I recognize them through my eyes, through my aura. When given the chance, I prefer the opportunity to express myself through clothes I resonate with, from people I know, who put magic and love into the designs.
I do not know how to tackle judgment around economic and social classism on a global level. On a personal level, I tackle these isms by not judging people according to economic, social, race or any other divisive strata. Instead I try to be present to each individual’s higher self and recognize that we are all one. My time on this planet is spent with many different types of people but the ones I am closest to are able to understand me when I speak the language I am speaking in this post and who like to express themselves through fashion, dance, art and joy. For some reason, some of those people appear to look like Beautiful People from the Future.
On a production level, there is room for improvement. Fashion can be made for more sizes, it can be made cheaper, it can be made in a more sustainable way. It is unfortunate that the arts of any kind require using resources whether its musicians using computers, designers using cotton or leather, or sculptors using massive amounts of wood for a sculpture for one week to burn. So do we stop the process of creating high art, music or fashion because it takes up resources? Do we stop supporting and consuming high fashion or art for the same reason? What role does art (music, fashion, sculpture, painting) have in a sustainable society? Do we only create using recycled materials instead of following our vision to perfection?
I appreciate any reflections back. -
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Re: a spiritual perspective
Fri, October 19, 2007 - 12:19 PMI think you have many presuppositions that aren't necessarily shared by many people, and quite likely fulfill many of Dr. Trix's criticisms of separation based on appearance (if not necessarily on dollar worth). What I read was a declaration that seemed highly exclusionary. That may not have been your intent, but you still present many "us v. them" situations, as well as an outlook that borders on intolerance.
Yes, I feel much of what you wrote bordered on intolerance. Intolerance of those who don't believe exactly what you believe. Where do people who don't believe in a bird tribe lineage fall in your hierarchy of understanding? Why does one need to wear a feather to wear their heart on their sleeve? What of those who don't believe in a single divine feminine and instead find a vast pantheon of beauty, neither male nor female, to worship? What of those who don't necessarily believe that we are all one entity, but instead think that our interconnectedness exists only at a quantum, barely affectable level?
I find much to disagree with, and I feel as though I may appear unenlightened or boorish to you on account of my criticisms, but I do applaud you for posting your particular spiritual beliefs with the knowledge that such criticisms might inevitably surface.
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Re: a spiritual perspective
Fri, October 19, 2007 - 9:27 PMlesley,
thank you for sharing your spiritual path. i find it quite beautiful.
it sounds like your spirituality includes being open to the love in everyone that is all around you. it sounds like you're open to connecting with lovely humans of all shapes, sizes, ages and appearances as a means of following this path.
i truly believe this is the exception and not the rule in this scene that we are a part of.
i also really resonate with many of the ideas you have expressed about how fashion is a symbolic language. however, i believe your post leaves out the idea that there are powerful cultural forces at play beyond what you so eloquently have described (the unconscious, appreciation of beauty, finding oneself, etc) that have inevitable influence on our thoughts, attitudes and behaviors...and here is where i believe we differ. i believe strongly that trends are a key factor in how people relate to themselves and their appearances. fedoras and tutus have been around a long time, leather and feathers longer, beauty even longer than that. however, there is a specific way in which these objects have presented themselves current fashion trend of our scene that is worth noting. its not as simple as birds of a feather flock together. if we examine the fashion trend, we can see that it isn't the objects per se, but how the objects are put together into a specific aesthetic style (the root of a fashion trend) that causes the grouping (eg people who wear feathers in fedoras tend not to hang out with people who wear feather boas and people who dress one style of hot, tend not to hang out with people who dress in a different style of hot).
so where i agree that we explore our own beauty and each others through fashion and that fashion can often be used to express inner beauty and to facilitate connections, i believe that we end up doing these things within the framework of the current fashion trend which creates a contemporary image of ideal beauty. the power of the cultural force of fashion trends are so huge that we are all susceptible to them and perpetuate them. as a result, despite even our best intentions, we view ourselves and each other through this lens and compare ourselves and each other to this contemporary image of ideal beauty.
finally, i have to say that i believe that spiritual beliefs, life philosophies, social values, etc are more reasonable ways of separating into groups than by appearances. i sometimes worry that fashion and spiritual beliefs have gotten so conflated that simply having a certain fashion sense defines a certain spiritual belief.
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Re: a spiritual perspective
Mon, October 22, 2007 - 6:21 PMi have something to add, and that is from a biopsycholologic perspective, is that the human race as people have known, is really a race.
who will be the next big hit? who will fit in, who will use stone tools first, who will be the next evolutionary step, and who will make people feel uncomfortable with their own theories, fears and internal storms?
everybody tries so hard to be accepted. and even people who "accept" everyone will have an inherent bias towards SOMETHING
no matter how you try to shake that perspective.
i feel as though this particular conversation has been going on thru the years, and for me in different scenarios, throughout my experience.
i dont see a lot of the people from this scene doing alot for the COMMUNITY of everyone else who goes to bed at 10pm and works all the time to survive their swelling credit problems, so i think that if you have to find something to do with your time, its going to go to the greater areas of your social structures, that create a positive feedback loop that keeps that status quo going, even in the smallest groups.
i love people, i find us to be extremely intriguing, and the shades of human that we all express are as extensive as the micrometers that separate the different bands that make up light, meaning that once you stray from the whole, a certain representative feature comes out, but its still light.
this is absolutely hands down one of the coolest things ive ever read on tribe, and it makes me smile to see that others feel the same way i do...
oops, isnt that what this post is all about?
i commend dr trix on this sociopsychologically active topic, and am very interested in what everyone will be doing in the future,
because we are the ones making it.
being alive consists of eating, breathing air, sleeping and protecting ourselves and others from harmful things live UV and cave bears,
so if someone else tells me different, i think that they are just trying to sell me something.
and dr trix, lets have tea. -
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Re: a spiritual perspective
Mon, October 22, 2007 - 6:22 PMoh yeah, and i almost forgot, you dont need to find something that youre standing directly in..... -
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Re: a spiritual perspective
Wed, October 24, 2007 - 11:48 AMprofile.myspace.com/index.cfm
this is a repost from, huey freeman's blog on myspace
Because of industrialized nation's social abundance of wealth, what is defined as "worth" has become blurred in their societies. Two items may have the exact same properties, yet the one with a better look shall be bought more. Because these people do not need to worry about food, clothing, and shelter like many others do, what has become important to them is the appearance they present towards others. The exterior value of things has overcome the interior importance.
Poverty, crime, and misery in general are not important to people. Rather, what has become important in their lifestyle is knowing the latest fashion trends, having the nicest gadgets, and so forth. Having fifty dollar khakis from Hollister rather than a cheaper yet just as efficient pair at K-Mart is not important for living. They are the same thing except people value it more because of social validation. "In commercial products at least, such critics see ornament and variety not as goods that we value for their own sakes but as tools for creating false desire (Postrel 423)." The "look and feel" of things does not have value of its own because those two pair of pants are the same thing except that Hollister's name is placed on a pair of expensive pants.
People have let the things they own define who they are in life and speak for them. The things they own are their personality now. "Viscerally, if not intellectually, we're convinced that style does matter, that look and feel add something important in our lives (Postrel 425)." These people have no great goal in life that is important to them. Nothing to achieve but work and get more money for elaborate stuff they do not need to flaunt towards others. As long as others see how they look, than they will care to keep up with the Jones'.
Because they care about their appearance, they allow others to decide who they are and how they act. This is all a part of becoming part of the social norm. Uniqueness is not praised in society but shunned. Rather, wearing similar clothes and doing what everyone else does is normal and expected from people. As long as everyone else decides to do it, than it is acceptable to do. People care so much about it because they do not want to become the victim of peer pressure. A person from a poor area like ..:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Newark may where baggy pants because that is the normal thing to do in his culture, yet when he leaves Newark, people will place a label upon him just by his appearance alone.
So a thing's value also depends upon the people it is marketed for, since people who wear Hollister or Phat Farm come from very different backgrounds. It is impossible, therefore, to say that a material possession has any intrinsic value, because that merely depends on the eyes of the beholder. One man's treasure is another's junk and no influence can place any one standard upon an item. "The sales racks are full of aesthetic experiments that failed to capture the public imagination, and every such item is an argument against the notion that authorities can dictate style (Postrel 432)." The 'look and feel' of things does not define its value because different people will embrace different ideals of what material goods they aspire to have.
Different groups value different things which, interestingly enough plays into the lack of diversity amongst individuals and the idea of being a part of something. Inside, a person may act nothing like the stereotype they are placed in by their surface appearance, but that will not stop others from thinking this so. "As anyone who has been a teenager knows, the right style can determine who's in, while the wrong look can mean social oblivion (Postrel 435)." Their material possessions already place them within a certain class, with their personality coming second in labeling who they are. Variation brings diversity but allows cliques to form off of that diversity. The surface is what they are and social validation will say whether they fit in or not.
With the desire to fit in, people may do things in which they do not understand properly. One such example is the do-rag. Since many hip-hop artists wear these on their head, many people have made it a fashion trend, despite the fact that the do-rag was never designed to be fashionable in the first place. Rather, it was just used to keep peoples' hair protected. Still this little piece of cloth garnered so much attention, that it raised its value in peoples' eyes. People with no need for a do-rag wear them because it is the social norm at the moment.
When an item gains social value, such as the do-rag, so does the price. Price has become synonymous with worth in society. People see themselves wanting to become like those beautiful models sporting Calvin Klein or Armani T-shirts, so they go out and buy the expensive clothing in mock imitation. They need to spend all this money in order to become what they hope to be. While the models' bodies may have intrinsic value, since it is natural, it pretends to show what the perceived norm is, so others buy into it, therefore becoming social validation. By using the natural beauty of the body, it raises the exterior value of the item.
By setting a certain body image showing what is attractive and what is not, it brings forth a level of deceit in people. These models embody perfection, and demand perfection from others as well. Men pack into gyms because there image has suddenly become important to them. Before, no one cared about their image but now that the social norm is having a muscular body, it is relevant. It is just another form of keeping up with the Jones'.
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"Her looks do mean something important to her. They don't match her sense of who she is or would like to be. By changing the subject, her father is inadvertently agreeing that she looks bad, exacerbating her sense of failure (Postrel 436)."
People care so much about surface because they are free to do so when their every essential need for survival is catered too. Social validation varies greatly between the third world and first world. An American may view an Old Navy sweatshirt from the 1980s as obsolete while a Ugandan would be grateful just to have a shirt. That sweatshirt has no intrinsic value of its own. The American does not want it because it is out of style while the Ugandan wants it out of necessity. Americans alongside other people care so much about exterior beauty and value because there is nothing else to care for. When people grow up having everything they ever needed, they begin to take things for granted. So they look for things they do not have and feel a longing for them. "But like Liz Twitchell in Beverly Hills, they would also ache for the unattainable (Postrel 435)." Material possessions are the things they ache for and they value nothing else until they obtain that object. Then when society turns to a new fad, that valuable possession is nothing but junk like everything else they bought in the past.
The pursuit of happiness is nothing but the pursuit of social validation. People care only because everyone else seems to as well. Nothing has value in itself because the free will of mankind changes opinions on things every day. When no one is around, individuals hardly concern themselves in wearing the right clothing because when alone, the only opinion around is of that one person. Alone, individuals are free from the need to feel beautiful or show off their fancy new cell phones. Only this has intrinsic value, because the true surface of the person is being shown. The 'look and feel' of things at that moment, is real.
Social validation is what people revolve around there entire lives. The need to be a part of something is too important for many and the surface value is all they look for. </SPAN>The 'look and feel' of things cannot judge what is really on the inside though. People allow themselves to be judged on their clothes, hairstyle, amongst other things which only show a pretty mask of the individual. This mask has no value of its own. The surface exists for the sole purpose of letting people make assumptions which does not prove anything about it.
Defining your merits by that pretty veil
While Virginia Postrel discussed in Surface and Substance how Western societies have let surface define a person or things worth, similar things occur in other cultures. In Honor and Shame, Lila Abu-Lughod addressed how customs, behavior, and dress dictated Kamla's respect for her family and was also a reflection of who she was. It seems apparent that surface appeal is not only evident in Western societies, but elsewhere as well. Throughout the world people, even those who are not victims of a consumer culture, allow exterior appearance greater importance than interior value.
In place of Western societies love for consumer culture, people elsewhere have replaced it with the values of their ethics. Instead of dressing to look presentable to other people, the Bedouins dress a certain way to follow their principles. When people strayed away from the social norm, they were ridiculed for it. Postrel described how people create false selves because of peoples' temptations to judge others based off of what they decide to wear. Likewise in Bedouin culture, how one decides to dress will allow others to judge that individual unfairly, as what happened when Kamla wanted to change her head covering. "Kamla had confided to me that she would have liked to replace her kerchief with the new Islamic headcovering but she was afraid her family would object" (Abu-Lughod 48). Because her family had mocked the different styles unfamiliar to the Bedouin way of life before, she feared rejection, similar in how teenagers in Western societies also feel. "As anyone who has been a teenager knows, the right style can determine who's in, while the wrong look can mean social oblivion" (Postrel 435). Fear prevents many from becoming or acting like how they really feel. The fear is just described differently depending on the situation.
A lack of assimilation between different ways of life also helps further the divide of how valuable the surface appearance really is. Despite the beard being a traditional norm in Muslim society, the Bedouin women mocked Kamla's cousin Salih because it was something different from what was normal to them. "No matter how many times Kamla told them it was the tradition of the Prophet, Gateefa and his other aunts accused him of looking like a Coptic Priest" (Abu-Lughod 48). Such a beard would look hilarious to the Bedouins, yet if they were to go to one of ..:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Egypt's cities, they would see that it is quite normal. Postrel also notes how what is acceptable changes as in regards to what happened to Anne Bass when she went to a Paris fashion show presented by Giorgio Armani and felt out of place. "I remember wearing a Saint Laurent evening suit that paired a heavily embroidered jacket with a tangerine charmeuse sarong, and that was the last time I recall putting on something that made that kind of statement" (Postrel 431). Before going to the Armani fashion show, Bass had been modern and up to date. Yet when she ventured into something new, like Armani clothing that had already been around for a few years, she was out of her social norm. Previously she had thought that Armani was nothing because she had never been around it before. By leaving behind what is comfortable and normal, Postrel and Abu-Lughod show in their examples how a lack of appreciation and knowledge of other cultures in life creates a close minded image of how valuable an exterior surface really is.
Likewise, perceived norms change over time as well. As Kamla explained to Abu-Lughod, the younger generations of Bedouins were growing tired of the old ways of life. "Despite the double standard in matters of the heart, she acknowledged that her cousins and her brothers were having almost as hard a time dealing with their old-fashioned elders as she was" (Abu-Lughod 33). Postrel points out the same thing by showing how fashion has grown and changes over time. "Fashion in this sense applies not just to clothing and related products but to anything whose aesthetic form evolves continuously, from typefaces and car bodies to musical styles and popular colors" (Postrel 430). Change comes whether people, like the Bedouin elders, appreciate it or not. While critics may argue that the change is meaningless, as was the case Postrel made with the green pager compared to the black model, ideas begin to vary as younger generations look for ideals distinct from their parents like with Kamla.
The appearance of people can even determine a person's merit in both Western and Bedouin society. Postrel and Abu-Lughod observe how the way a person dresses defines the person even before they are gotten to be known personally. How they look automatically will tell people whether they are respectable and responsible individuals, as Secretary of State Katherine Harris learned. "One interpreted Harris's blue eye shadow as evidence that "she failed to think for herself" and declared that "one wonders how this Republican woman, who can't even use restraint when she's wielding a mascara wand, will manage to use it and make sound discussions in this game of partisan one-upmanship" (Postrel 437). In Kamla's case, Bedouin elders criticized how Egyptian women dressed and lacked modesty. "A group of Bedouin elders had met recently to discuss what to do about these women who "walk around naked" (Abu-Lughod 44). The appearance alone allowed critics to harshly disapprove of everything that person was.
No one can say how much moral worth anything has just by judging it based on the 'look and feel.' Compared to many other stores such as Target, Wal-Mart is ugly and does not cater to attracting people aesthetically. However, Wal-Mart attracts people for different reasons. "Just as we may value a green pager more highly than a black one entirely because of its looks, we may value Wal-Mart for its convenience and efficiency, while acknowledging that it is ugly" (Postrel 438). Something's worth cannot be judged accurately by its exterior value but only through its intrinsic virtue. To the Bedouin tribe, Kamla was nothing but another woman who could only clean her house and care for children but intrinsically, she was capable of surpassing even men in intelligence. Still they would try to hold her back though. "Even if a girl was clever and came out first in her class, once she had learned right from wrong and had come to understand, they would say to her, "Come on, that's enough"" (Abu-Lughod 36). Both Kamla and Wal-Mart are similar in that people will assume things just by appearance, but it does not say anything about how they really are.
While the intrinsic importance is often shadowed by the exterior appeal, it gives people a false perception of how things are. Plenty of people will view the exterior value and feel that it offers something much better than what they currently have. This deceit is not realized until they actually buy it and see that it is no different and in some cases, even worse than what they had before. As Postrel observed when the green pagers first came out people bought them rather than the black pagers. This was so despite the fact that they were the same thing intrinsically, but had different color schemes, as critics argued over in Postrel's essay. "An appealing package can make you believe that Nazis are good, or that colas are distinguishable" (Postrel 422). Abu-Lughod observed how Christians from two different parts of the world were viewed differently in Bedouin society.
Unlike Egyptian Christians, she argued, Europeans do not recognize God. "Every Muslim, even the most ignorant and uneducated, knows that there is a God and that He created all things." Worse, Europeans do not pray. When I contradicted her to say that many prayed in church, she challenged me. "What? What kind of person prays with his shoes on? May God protect us" (Postrel 44)!
While they follow the same religion and moral beliefs, Kamla felt that they were different and that Egyptian Christians were better than European Christians, thereby affirming the idea of the false perception exterior value gives out.
It is apparent that Western societies are not the only ones subject to preferring exterior value but that other societies, such as the Bedouins are susceptible to it as well. While exterior worth is valued for different reasons in both cultures, they still overlook the major importance of intrinsic value. A Bedouin's behavior will be subject to the same judgments as a Westerner will face. It will define who they are and what they are like, even if it is a sham. Western societies may act like this because they take everything for granted, but Bedouins act like this because they fear and ridicule change in their lifestyle. The two mentalities are not that different from each other.
Throughout the world, people from all different cultures and civilizations allow the exterior value to dictate a person or things worth. Virginia Postrel pointed out in Surface and Substance how people in Western societies have let consumerism envelope their life and define who that individual is all about. Abu-Lughod on the other hand in Honor and Shame proved how the Bedouin tribe has let a person's appearance, customs, and outward behavior show how much respect a Bedouin has for his family. Although Oliver Sacks discussed how visual perceptions of things change when people become or are born blind in The Mind's Eye: What the Blind See, he makes it clear that a blind individual is just as acceptable to letting a surface define intrinsic value.
A Westerner dresses himself in a way that he sees is acceptable and respected in his culture. People see the latest fashion designs and what everyone else wears and, because it is accepted, will dress that way in fear of rejection. Postrel notes how teenagers are especially susceptible to this kind of thinking. "As anyone who has been a teenager knows, the right style can determine who's in, while the wrong look can mean social oblivion" (Postrel 435). From our childhood onward, we are taught that surface and substance matters and that we will not go far in life if people refuse to accept this. Our appearance will always tell people who we are and what we stand for. In the Bedouin society, a person's apparel also makes them vulnerable to letting others decide their clothing style. As Abu-Lughod observed, the Bedouins looked harshly upon their Egyptian neighbors, especially for the women, in how they dressed. "A group of Bedouin elders had met recently to discuss what to do about these women who "walk around naked"" (Abu-Lughod 44). Like in Western societies, a person's appearance dictates to others who that person is in Bedouin society and how much respect should be shown towards them and their families. The blind cannot see the latest Western fashion trends or how the Bedouins dressed modestly, but they think along the same lines in how important surface and substance is. Social acceptance and fitting in is just as important for those who cannot see as the rest of us. A blind person cannot see anything, yet they still do things like the rest of us such as dressing in style or going sight seeing. Sacks mentions how Sabriye Tenberken, a traveler, would sometimes envision images which were completely inaccurate. "These images may sometimes be wildly or comically different from reality, as she relates in one incident when she and a companion drove to Nam Co, the great salt lake in ..:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Tibet" (Sacks 481). For Tenberken, her way of fitting in with others like her was to travel despite the obvious futility in going to see sites such as the lake. People everywhere fear rejection and being left out so they do things which they may not agree with, such as dressing a certain way, or doing pointless things like traveling to see something that you cannot see.
Likewise, what is seen in things differs from person to person. One person may see beauty in that veil while others find it ugly. We see what we want to see in things. Sacks makes such an observation in regards to Lusseyran, who conjured up unreal images on purpose even though he had not always been blind. "The visual cortext, the inner eye, having now been activated, Lusseyran's mind constructed a "screen" upon which whatever he thought or desired was projected and, if need be, manipulated, as on a computer screen" (Sacks 484). Lusseyran goes on to describe also how, when envisioning people, men and women would be without heads or fingers (Sacks 484). Even though he had no basis for his images and even knew how things should be, Lusseyran chose to look at things inaccurately. It is not on the same level as blind people, but the same happens to others as well. In Bedouin life, piety was seen as a positive feature of Kamla's people. Even though they were illiterate and uneducated, Kamla saw in them a respectable people who preserved their ways of life, like their generosity. "The other thing I want them to hold onto is this mutual assistance-they help each other in all circumstances" (Abu-Lughod 46). Others would see the Bedouins as a backwards people, but to Kamla, they are an upright people. While Kamla states numerous problems of the Bedouins which need to be addressed, she still looks at them in a positive manner because she did not look at them any other way. An American would probably be the type of people to think of the Bedouins as backwards, but they too see things how they want to see it. Hilary Clinton learned this the hard way when people did not see in her a Wellesley and Yale graduate, but rather a woman with a horrible hair style. "Inculcated with the idea that surfaces are false and unimportant, she lacked the presentation skills for an aesthetic age and had to learn them in public" (Postrel 426). Clinton should not have been looked upon so harshly but rather as an ideal woman figure in American society but people saw what they wanted to see which was negative and trivial. No matter the circumstance, people have always allowed what they want to see to have greater merit than the intrinsic truth behind it. It does not matter if they are even told they are wrong because to them, the first appearance is everything.
Exterior value instead of intrinsic worth oftentimes has greater worth to people. Its value is only derived from social validation. Postrel discusses how one moment something may have a high value, yet next year it would be out of date, replaced by a newer image which somehow has greater worth, so people must change and keep up with the trends. "Garment makers, she complained, made sure "that last year's wardrobe shall annually be made as obsolete as possible," placing a severe financial burden on poor women who wanted to look current" (Postrel 435). Westerners must change their appearances and styles constantly in order to feel that they have anything valuable. For Kamla and other youths in Bedouin society, social validation meant disagreeing with their elder's decisions and going with the latest styles and beliefs in Egyptian society. Kamla wanted to break away from certain aspects of Bedouin culture and try new things, like wearing the new Islamic head coverings which were becoming popular or marrying someone outside of her Bedouin tribe. "Kamla said she would adopt this kind of headcovering "if God opens the way for me and I get to marry someone educated"" (Abu-Lughod 49). Kamla and her peers rejected the old and wanted to get into the new ways of thinking and living. Even for the blind keeping up with trends they cannot see is vital. Sacks cites a case in which a woman he met named Arlene Gordon who, despite her blindness, still placed importance on her attire. "Indeed, she was dressed very smartly, and took obvious pride in her appearance" (Sacks 482). She may have been blind, but surface appeal was still a significant value in her life and she made sure to keep up with the times. Being old and out of date makes a thing's exterior value diminish until it has no worth in a person's mind. Only the newest and most popular things have exterior worth even though things like a sweater bought last year really is no different than the new sweater bought this year.
Even though changes in beliefs, cultures, and styles will eventually happen, people still become hostile to things that are different from them and some will simply reject differences that go against the norm of their lives. Postrel proves this by showing how during the 2000 election, Al Gore was spurned by critics because of wearing bad makeup during his first debate with George W. Bush. "Amid the Florida recount, a Gore critic harked back to his excessive makeup to suggest that he was a phony: "While Gore yammered about [the voters'] 'will,' it was clear to my houseplants that the man who looks like he raids Katherine Harris' pancake makeup supply was really gloathing about the Florida Supreme Court decision in his favor"" (Postrel 437). This critics visual perceptions of Gore automatically told him that Gore was a bad candidate and therefore rejected him on that basis alone. Gore to him was a bad candidate because he wore unusual makeup for bad sunburn. Visual perceptions of people subject them to unfound claims about their identity. For Kamla, she saw in Egyptians an immoral people who showed no respect to others. "They knew no modesty, she said: the son listened to cassettes in front of his father, and the young daughter-in-law neither covered her hair with a black headcloth nor avoided her father-in-law" (Abu-Lughod 41). For Bedouins, this type of behavior is completely unacceptable and disrespectful. To Egyptians however, they would not give a second thought to what they were doing because they do not see anything wrong in it. The differences in their exterior values were enough for Kamla to criticize them. Blind people can also be hostile to changes in things. Sacks suggests this by mentioning Zoltan Torey who, rather than subject himself to a different lifestyle when becoming accidentally blind, rejected the idea.
When it became clear that his corneas had been hopelessly damaged and that he would have to live his life as a blind man, he was advised to rebuild his representation of the world on the basis of hearing and touch and to "forget about sight and visualizing altogether." But this was something that Torey could not or would not do (Sacks 479).
The circumstances may be diverse, but differences will cause people of all types to influence their understanding of who other people really are. Oftentimes being different means that people will think that they cannot be integrated so rejection is the only other option.
A thing's physical appearance is not the only thing people use to judge its value rather than its interior virtue. Even such things as sound play a role in how things are viewed. Postrel mentions this by showing how a critic disagrees with how movies are produced these days. "One sign of the "age of falsification," writes a critic, is "the blockbuster movie in which story line and plausibility are sacrificed to digital effects and Dolby Sound"" (Postrel 424). The critic is already placing judgment on a movie based on the fact that it has better sound. Even without being able to see things, it can be put under scrutiny. For people who cannot see, this plays an even more important role in judging the exterior value. In The Mind's Eye, Dennis Shulman used his sense of smell to determine peoples' attitudes. "He could now recognize many of his patients by smell, he said, and he could often pick up states of tension or anxiety which they might not even be aware of" (Sacks 485). Rather than asking the patients how they are, he assumes how the patients are feeling merely based on using a different sense. His nose has replaced his eyes in judging people. Even the use of sound can cause people to be criticized. In Honor and Shame, Abu-Lughod listened to a cassette, which compared foreigners to animals. "Accompanying his lover to a nightclub, he found people dancing like birds as someone howled while playing the piano" (Abu-Lughod 45). Bedouins who would listen to the cassette tape would probably perceive foreigners as hooligans who live a life of sin. They used music in judging others without even ever meeting a foreigner. Seeing things is not the only way of understanding the world. The other senses such as sound are just as capable of looking at the outward appeal rather than the intrinsic value.
Becoming blind will not change an individual's perception on people, society, and the world. Our capitalist societies allow direct appeal to outweigh all other matters and people of all backgrounds are capable of falling into this trap. We grow up thinking that surface and substance are intertwined and no matter what anyone says, most still hold this opinion. Changes such as becoming blind will not alter that person's attitudes and thoughts. They will still desire surface appeal like anyone else. Human beings will always care how they and others look. A common saying is to never judge a book by its cover. If only it were as simple as that.
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Re: a spiritual perspective
Wed, October 24, 2007 - 12:58 PMchlorophil, thanks for posting this. it is definitely worth looking at how this relates to our larger american culture as well as cross cultural social psychology.
while i'm posting, my friend suggested that i post this part of a related email exchange that we had:
i have been told that this may be valuable to post here:
the blog wasn't really written with an explicit goal in mind.
it was written as an observation. the results of a scientific inquiry of sorts.
simply to raise awareness of a phenomenon that exists in the world.
knowledge is valuable. what people want to do with that awareness is up to them.
i don't feel the need to hope that anything will happen more than acceptance of observations.
i think only good things can come out of it.
i believe that the foundations of this scene (like most people's lives everywhere) are built on finding social acceptance and a sense of belonging. i believe that as people enter the scene, they hope to find people who will embrace them for who they are. however, i believe as we navigate our way through the scene, we make both conscious and unconscious choices to give up who we are, in order be more accepted.
this isn't particular to this scene because it happens all the time everywhere. however, i think it is worth noting, because so many people in this scene claim to be so "progressive, spiritual, evolved, conscious", etc but fall into the same traps of being human, and hold on to their "progressive, spiritual, evolved, conscious" identities so strongly, that they are unwilling/unable/afraid of looking at how fragile and human they still are and how much they may still need to grow.
i think that if we can be mindful about the fact that we are under the influence of so many forces that tend to move us away from ourselves than we can have more of a conscious relationship with those forces, and thus have a better sense of who we really are. -
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Re: a spiritual perspective
Wed, October 24, 2007 - 2:23 PMyeah i agree , b open to people who are different and dont put them down for it, you learn more that way
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Sparkle Ponies
Thu, October 25, 2007 - 6:03 PMMy buddy MollyStar calls the way good looking, super hotted up, crazy expensive set the "sparkle ponies". I guess she picked up the term from someone else, not sure who ( mad props yo ). In any case, I think the Sparkle Ponies are HILARIOUS. In fact, dr. trix and everyone else weirded out by the current state of things, when you see 'em just say to yourself "Sparkle Ponies, Sparkle Ponies, Sparkle Ponies" and I guarantee that you'll giggle. Works for me every time : )
You know, we are all still just sooo stuck in high school...... -
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Re: Sparkle Ponies
Thu, October 25, 2007 - 6:46 PMWhoooooooaaa now! (ponies..heehee!)
That was not at all how I or the people who made that term up (which was NOT me but they are fabulous, I assure you!) intended it...but that is funny, none the less, how you have changed it in your brain! Ha!
I have now watched this term go from its original birth meaning to SEVERAL different lives and incarnations. And yes, I have DEFINITELY contributed to its rebirthing in the past but not to this meaning. Ha again! I like it though.
I have actually never called out anyone into a specific click ("the good looking, super hotted up, expensive set") really. I know many and love many who I am sure are being "put" into this within this and similar conversations and where I have had some (probably more than "some") conversations about this topic of my own, very rarely has a specific name come into play within them. Mostly it has been generalized (I said mostly!). I am sure I have probably been lumped into someone else and I don't care. I love myself.
God, please, can we all just LAUGH out loud together now at ourselves....ready. One...two...three....GO!
I think that would do EVERYONE a wooooooorld of good!
Double HA!
(laughing at self NOW and ALOT)
~MollieStar -
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Re: Sparkle Ponies
Thu, October 25, 2007 - 7:46 PMHey there : )
Agreed that my take on it ain't necessarily yours. So just to be clear all y'all - any pejorative implication is mine, not miss mollie's......
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Bumping this thread back to the top...
Tue, November 6, 2007 - 10:22 PMFor anybody that didn't know...
www.sfbg.com/blogs/gsf/2...igner_d.html
social-creature.com/this-cha...verything
It's not really in response to the main topic, but kinda...
Let's just agree, life's precious-too precious to forget we're all in it together. -
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Unsu...
Re: Bumping this thread back to the top...
Wed, November 7, 2007 - 8:34 AMWHOA! what the fuck....who really fucking cares about some attention whore coke head bitch overdosing??? well....there is kinda this war thing happening in iraq. A LOT A LOT A LOT of innocent women and children have been killed WITH YOUR FUCKING TAX DOLLARS. if you are paying taxes ********you have blood of innocents all over your soul******************
yeah, so to all the el circo /false profit asshats: please go to bali, please commit suicide. please abort any babies you have.....please please please. and take your YESTERYEAR DEAD ANIMAL CARCASS FASSIONS WITH YOU.....it will at least take your sisterfucking tax dollars away from the war. and the lives of the women and children in iraq are WORTH A MILLION TIMES YOURS OR MINE.
fuck you all. with love. hahahahaha.
burn dirty bitch, burn. -
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Re: Bumping this thread back to the top...
Wed, November 7, 2007 - 12:05 PM.... well, I think someone needs a hug. -
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Re: Bumping this thread back to the top...
Wed, November 14, 2007 - 6:53 AMoy -
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My Truth
Sun, November 18, 2007 - 1:22 PMThe Truth
I spent a thousand dollas on tribal bling this year got me just three little garments that I hold dear
Shouldn’t have spent all of that money could of saved a starving kid
but I spent all of that money in just three days I did!
Then I spent all my time primping and I missed the protest
I wonder what I can do or be to help the world suffer less?
Out on the dancefoor just trying to work it out,
looking at the sexy people I forget what its about.
I'll make my escape and alter my mind so much, that the sad truths of this world we live in, my mind wont even touch.
Don’t want to say hi cause I didn’t say hi first?
This community is blessing and its judgments are its curse!
Im feeling uncomfortable unsure, cracked out and uninspired
could be of this unsustainable decadent lifestyle my soul is tired?
My new expensive cloths are already falling apart oh dam....
I'm goanna party so hard that I forget about Iran.
Wait….souldn't I be Co-creating some sort communal reality?
Wasn’t the whole idea to be the change we wished to see?
And yet….
My friends are like rare jewels ...wearing feathers cause we miss our wings...wearing magic talismans mistook by some fools for bling bling.
My friends are wize, wild and all- knowing of there powers, but not sure how to use them in this the final hour.
We are
Seed scatters
Dimensional travelers
Truth unravelers
Powers that be
Visionaries for creation of a true Comeunity!!!!!!!!!
The Catalysts that create the space for a gathering place,
now that’s a service of divine and much needed grace!
Ritual wavers
Sacred keepers
Mythic dreamers
Love beamers!!!!
Now, here’s a little reminder I’ll say so true:
It was never just about the Music for me and you,
But it really was Each Other that brought each one of us here,
to manifest visions, truths and dreams,
to share our talents dear.
To be supported, sustainable, nurtured and accepted….
And for no being on this planet to ever be neglected.
We have all we need
While the earth it does bleed
We must first sow the seeds….
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