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stolen copies of my new album

topic posted Wed, March 14, 2007 - 1:58 PM by  Figment of Y...
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wah wah wah

(cue heartwreching violin strings)

hello!!!!

and thank you for joining us for another episode of YAN CAN COOK!

Today Yan will be divulging a rarest Californian recipe for: how to totally rip off an artist!!!!

ARE YOU READY!!??! ok, lets go!

First, come across a full length version of unreleased music. Mix that up with some excitement.
Next, rip that music to your computer. Mix that up with a few doses of technical savy.
Now toss it in the oven and set to bake.
Remove and put up the music for FREE download on some file sharing programs.
Send links to your friends.
(careful becuase some people will hear about this, and just go do some basic searches on their own, and they too will find it!)

...next, send out some emails telling people about the album being available for FREE.
Mix that up with playing it at parties, and burning it for friends.

And PRESTO!!!! You've potentially ruined someone's career!


So a word to the wise friends, in the age of entitlement and A.D.D., if yu enjoy music, SUPPORT the musicians, go without a lattee for 3 days and save your 15$ for their CD. DONT burn it and DONT download it for free. Dont support people who do, and spread the word.


Its one thing to illegally distribute someone's OLD music, but whoever thought it was cool in any way to post those links up and offer my brand new, unreleased, 3-year-in-the-making record for free, did something VERY wrong. As for the several hundered people who i KNOW downloaded it.

Shame On You in a deep way.


Let me break down the conundrum:

A record label MUST get press to support their release.

Press needs a full copy of the release 3-4 months in advance for adqueate coverage.

Press does NOT want clips or samples, they want the FINAL CD for review.

So when OM RECORDS sent out 400 select copies to press around the world, somehow, somewhere, someone took one of those copies and not only stole it but PUT IT UP FOR FREE DOWNLOAD!!!!!!!!

And the album isnt even out yet.

This kind of action can result in the creative death of an artist.

Let me say this is not about me making money.

I dont want to sell units to cash in, get rich, and sip bichz and roll 'roun inna benz. or whatever.

I want my LABEL to sell units, so that it is worth it for them to invest more time, energy and money into promoting, circulating, distributing and SUPPORTING my art (and the messages inside my art) worldwide.


So by simply buying a CD for yourself, or buying it for a friend, its not "Oh cool, im giving some cash to Lorin, who i like to support"...cuz if that was the case, id be taking donations for personal money.

Its about supporting this dope label OM, which has been working with me doing back breaking work for a year to make this release huge, so that it can be a springboard for the NEXT release, and the one after that, as well as what we are hoping will be a new Bassnectar record label, and lots of other stuff in the works.


PLEASE DONT STEAL MY MUSIC>
PLEASE DONT STEAL OTHER PEOPLE'S MUSIC
PLEASE DONT LET OTHER PEOPLE STEAL MY MUSIC (it hurt so bad to look online and see my own friends had downloaded the cd!)
IF YOU DONT LIKE ME OR MY MUSIC, thats fine, just leave me alone.
IF YOU DO: SUPPORT.

that means if you DO burn someone's CD, and you like it:
find them on myspace, or the web, write them a letter, send them a donation, offer to help the record label with street team or promo when the artist tours, line them up a gig, or USE YOUR OWN ADULT BRAIN to figure out how to support, but dont just go around sucking people's life force.

im serious. i dont wish to preach or bich... i wish to educate first hand so you understand HOW IT FEELS TO BE ME.

well first off, it feels great, i am constantly meditating on things that are going well in life, and loving the spring weather, and feeling soo inspired to do the work i am on this planet to do!
:)
FULLY!

but, i gotta call a spade a spade.

And that goes for DJS, in 2007, putting out mixes digitally or on CD with their name on it, but no tracklisting...come on folks, support.


I would rather not waste precious bandwidth of your attention span on trivial matters like this, when there is so much more going on.

but my career is in jeopardy if people don't support.

And the careers of thousands of mindblowing artists who are alive right now and probably in their studios working, think about them, send them a prayer, and show them your love.

not just now, but from now on.

NOTE: this applies to all artists you like. and anything you like. VOTE WITH YOUR DOLLAR.
And in reference to file sharing and CD Burning PLEASE dont think i am hypocritically judging anyone.

i mean come on, its 2007, i am realistic. i have burned CDs, i have traded music, etc. On one hand, i feel more justified because i am in the bizness, and i support artists so much. But on the other hand, as i have grown, i have understood how sensitive this issue is, and how fundamentally dangerous it is to creativity (and all that creativity brings: inspiration, emotional health, social change, new thought, empowerment) for piracy to become normal. Not only has is stopped being a personal practice of mine, but i feel obligated to voice this all publicly.


THINK ABOUT IT NEXT TIME YOU DO IT.

You want that music cuz it feels so good.

Well if it feels so good, its probably is good, and its worth your support.

And if you cant afford it, then wait till you can and enjoy it that much more.

Support artists.

Im open for discussion, hit me.

-L
posted by:
Figment of Your...
SF Bay Area
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  • Re: stolen copies of my new album

    Wed, March 14, 2007 - 2:07 PM
    >>>hat means if you DO burn someone's CD, and you like it:
    find them on myspace, or the web, write them a letter, send them a donation, offer to help the record label with street team or promo when the artist tours, line them up a gig, or USE YOUR OWN ADULT BRAIN to figure out how to support, but dont just go around sucking people's life force. <<<<

    Theres an artist by the name of Keller Williams, many here might not know about him, but anyways, He has a disclaimer in all the liner notes of his cds.

    If you feel the great need to burn this cd for your buddy, please put $5 or $10 in an envelope and mail to Keller Williams at poBox 123 Fredricksburg,Va 12345...or suffer SERIOUS repercussions

    Or something like that

    • Re: stolen copies of my new album

      Thu, March 15, 2007 - 2:09 AM
      i was listening to bassnectar [on pandora] - while reading this post earlier - while copying fotos to laptop -- photography is just a hobby for me anyways, if that matters(?), and thought, 'i would be c r u s h e d if someone, esp if a friend or if for money, stole or used my photos w/o at least giving credit where it's due...

      ...so i wanted to reply to this thread, except....i didn't have access to the "free wi-fi" normally found from home. . .;) hmm, so how can i get upset over someone 'stealing or using' something of mine (photos in my case [even if just 'of personal and sentimental value' ] / or another's songs / production in lorin's case) if i find almost nothing wrong with 'free wireless'. . .(though someone else IS paying for it - whether it's my neighbor or the local cafe...) ???

      does it matter if one is an individual that whose craft or skills are being compromised vs. say Comcast?

      i don't mean to HIJACK this discussion, though i guess that is the point - is there a difference if this is affecting a person, an individual- lorin, vs his label (Om) - or your neighbor rather than Comcast? or is the point whether it's a hobby vs. one's livelihood? i don't think someone was being malicious by 'sharing' his album early, though perhaps not being as thoughtful as they could have been given their PRIVILEGE of early exposure...'just finding opportunity to share again with others / friends, or to be 'the first [to have a copy]'...(the nature of subversive | subculture?) does that make it wrong for me to grok free wireless if not [pw-]protected, or for you to copy a stranger's or even a friend's artwork 'if not for profit' but for no other reason than your enjoyment, :even: appreciation of it?

      at what point does it cross the line from _spreading the word_ & giving exposure (even if not theirs to give;) to Hijacking + Stealing? ?? are there ways to enjoy things for free (pandora) w/o ripping off nor compromising the artist?

      if nothing else, does it give greater appreciation for the exposure, IOW, _buying a copy_ and then giving it away vs ripping / burning away mult copies? (((it's like getting in for free | being given a free drink and then leaving a lousy tip. . .who does that?)))

      anyhow my apologies for the tangent. and in the process of writing this, "my" free wi-fi has gone in and out so many / too many times - perhaps a newfound appreciation for the true-cost of a solid connection....perceived value vs personal value :)

      thoughts?

      .M.
      • Re: stolen copies of my new album

        Thu, March 15, 2007 - 5:28 AM
        Lorin, I think you put your thoughts and feelings on the matter out there in a clear way. I'm sorry this has happened, before the album has even fully birthed into the public realm. Whether we like it or not, legal issues are vital withing the music industry, at the least for making things as clear as possible in a specific time (i.e., now) within the industry's evolution. It only takes one or two shocking experiences such as you've encountered to make the need for legal boundaries clear. That there is a need for contracts and laws can feel like a drag-- but once burned (figuratively and in this case literally) it becomes just a no-brainer, there are boundaries and protocols to follow, it's just biz-- devoid of emotion.

        I'm sure you have been feeling a few differing emotions about this, hurt, anger, disappointment, frustration, etc. In the end, the experience is strengthening on one hand- I know it's a drag to have to develop a tougher skin, so to speak, when the what we want to be open-hearted, when what we want is to share creativity and to fully play our part in life and consciousness evolving. Bottom line for you is that you are talking about respecting self & respecting your record co., that does need to come first, that sense of integrity does come straight from your heart. Some folks just won't get it, won't have a clue. Some will fully understand. It's those in the middle that most need to come to terms with what you are saying, and realize they have a chance to cop to operating from a less-than-preferred integrity level (we've all likely fallen at one time or another), and to do something to make right what went out of alignment.

        Blessing Lorin. Hope to see you in Ashland. ~Lisa
        • Re: stolen copies of my new album

          Thu, March 15, 2007 - 8:20 AM
          Lorin--

          Sorry bub---

          I for one cannot wait to purchase this cd--I heard the samples up on Om records and cannot wait. You do live in the age of digitial Pirates--YAR! So I guess you gotta roll with that as it is. Just know your' real fans are here to supports mang....

          Good seeing at CNY at 1015----and I'll be seeing ya at your release shindig----

          Until then---

          wait you see friends of yours dropping the illegal version too--

          now that ain't right--

          Sic Satsi on them-- ;)
    • random or deliberate?

      Thu, March 15, 2007 - 7:52 PM
      YAY KELLER!

      I know him, and he is a hell of a guy.

      I knew it was from the OM release... they gave that shit out like it was candy.

      I understand what Lo is saying, but I have a lot more faith in the community and people's consumptive habits than thinking this could potentially bring him/you down.

      HOWEVER... Lorin, something you haven't addressed...

      is this mitigated through someone, quite literally, trying to destroy you... or is this the illusion of a conspiracy operating under the guise of control?

      Most of the time the world is simply dealing with entropy, and things can suck.

      Is this random chaos, or is someone trying to ruin your career?
  • Re: stolen copies of my new album

    Thu, March 15, 2007 - 7:28 PM
    Great music isn’t easy to create. Artists spend their entire lives perfecting their craft, often sacrificing their social life. Lorin is dropping the hottest beats with so much soul put into each track. He has continually shown appreciation and love to all of his fans. The least that we can do is to show our love and respect by going into the record store and buying the cd, with incredible artwork wrapped around it. Very much care and decision are given to these details. Illegal piracy is a devastating blow to not only the artist, but the network of people who help make a record come to fruition. Smaller record labels, and the future of other musicians and record labels are especially vulnerable to this type of theft due to the major loss of revenue. Piracy undermines the future of music by cutting of the resources that allow it to grow. These people who are stealing never stop to think where we as a society would be without music. We are looking at disastrous long term picture here. It’s a terrifying thought, but that is where we could find ourselves.

    If you love an artist, you should want to keep their art alive. If you love what the artist is sharing, you should want to support it, not steal it. This is very hard work, and they deserve to be honored and compensated. The only way to stop piracy is to refuse to participate in it.

    Lorin, I am so sorry that this happened. Your heart must be very heavy to know that people who you know personally would do this to you.

    “As we express our gratitude.
    we must never forget that the
    highest appreciation is not to
    utter the words, but to live by them”

    John Fitzgerald Kennedy
    • Re: stolen copies of my new album

      Thu, March 15, 2007 - 8:22 PM
      First off, that sucks Lo....wish it hadn't happened to ya. Though I doubt anyone is maliciously out to hurt your career, more likely just thoughtlessness and carelessness on their part.

      Makes me remember back around '99 or 2000 when the original Napster was the most amazing thing I'd ever seen. Downloading songs (over 56k!) was just the best use of a computer I had ever found! I was really into the band Garbage at the time (do not diss Shirley Manson!) and lo and behold, their new album 'beautifulGarbage', which I had been anticipating for 3 years, shows up on napster or Kazaa or whatever about a month and a half before the true release. And I downloaded it. And....I learned a lesson! My enjoyment of the music was lessened by the cheap and dirty way I'd obtained it. I didn't support the band I loved, I didn't get the CD art, I didn't get the best quality tracks...the whole thing was just lame and I never did appreciate that album of theirs like I did the ones I'd bought in-store.

      Anyway, while I am not opposed to sometime making mix CDs for friends, I am most certainly buying legit copies of 'Underground Communication' just as I did 'Mez the Ultra.' I am anticipating this new CD of yours by far more than any other music releases I know of, even the upcoming Shirley Manson solo album...lol.

      I...can't...wait...for...the big tour! Woot!
    • Re: stolen copies of my new album

      Fri, March 30, 2007 - 2:20 PM
      "Piracy undermines the future of music by cutting of the resources that allow it to grow. These people who are stealing never stop to think where we as a society would be without music. We are looking at disastrous long term picture here. It’s a terrifying thought, but that is where we could find ourselves. "

      I'd like to start off by putting on my tomato-deflector shield, as I'm sure I will be stereotyped as your typical music pirate (which I'm not) for this rebuttal.

      Tracy: I'm going to be blunt... I don't think you really know what you're talking about.

      If you look at the sheer statistics, for example, the music industry's "resources" (which I assume you interprate as CASH) have not been undermined in the least bit all while piracy continues to grow. Quite the contrary, in fact, the music industry is growing! While CD sales decline, Digital downloads are skyrocketting and more than making up for the lapse.

      The industry is CHANGING very rapidly, however, which many people are ignorantly mistaking for some sort of decline. Artists have to keep up with the times, just like they always have, if they want to stay competitive. The touring artist is once again finding his tour revenue to be vital to his survival. IMO, THIS IS NOT A BAD THING!!! I love live music... who doesn't? If piracy is causing artists to have to tour more and as a consequence be forced to prove themselves in a live environment, in front of huge crowds, who are given the opportunity to then discuss/critique after the show collectively, then MORE POWER TO PIRACY, I say!

      Second point:
      As an analogy, I'd like to use an education philosophy (don't laugh, I know they're far from perfect). Growing up you might have heard the common complaint, "When am I ever going to USE this stuff?" The simple answer is NEVER (ha-ha!). But in fact, exposure to a liberal arts education allows us to think more critically... to be able tell the difference between a good idea and a great one! This is so fundamentally important, and few people are even aware of it! Music follows the same exact principle!

      Creativity thrives as creativity permeates! Someone who has not been exposed to a wide variety of music could end up worshipping mediocrity (just think of teenagers as an example) because they don't realize better music exists. This is where piracy comes in to save the day! Piracy enables people who would otherwise be unable to expose themselves to a great variety of music to do so at their convenience... allowing them to be more critical with their voting dollar, which eventually leads to better artists getting more money, and the reversal of the AWFUL state of POP music and Clear Channel syndrome. On top of that a) bits and byte are infinitely reproducible at NO COST, so they're not stealing exactly, and b) there cannot be a presumption that they would buy the music to begin with.

      Lorin - I love your music brother. I totally understand how awful it must be to feel ripped off, but honestly, I don't think anyone is ruining your career by pirating your music. The people who download & love your stuff will probably pay to go see you live, and maybe they wouldn't had they not been tipped off to your amazing art by a friend. I think if there were a way to measure this, many artists would start putting out their stuff for free (like many are currently beginning to do).

      An example, I know a favorite band of mine called "moe." makes most of their money from touring, not from record sales. They allow taping at their shows, and people post their shows on archive.org. They've allowed people access to their art at no cost, and the result has been nothing but good for them. It has not caused them their careers, it has just stepped up the pressure for them to keep working hard and earning a reputation of having every show be top-notch.

      And Lorin, I do buy your CDs, and in fact, I'll be dropping the $20 to see you spin tonight in Santa Cruz, and will continue to every time you spin in the Bay Area! But, I'll admit without shame, I download music BEFORE I buy it. Call it piracy if you want... but music stores don't always have the ability to listen-before-you-buy and I refuse to pay for something when I don't know what it is I'm paying for, exactly.

      I want you all to stop today and think long and hard about everything piracy ALLOWS to happen. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it's wrong to say piracy is nothing but destructive and evil, when many underground artists have nothing to lose from piracy and probably owe a lot to it in fact.
  • Re: stolen copies of my new album

    Thu, March 15, 2007 - 8:50 PM
    thievery is thievery... how can anyone enjoy something meant to be enjoyed if it is stolen... back in the day there used to be some really harsh realities for anyone caught stealing, but these daze the line is so blurry it's ridiculous. It's hard to tell if you are stealing by showing someone a movie or playing a track for a friend, but this shit here is serious!

    That album went out in advance to professional people. People who work in the industry and hopefully love what they do, and appreciate being where they are. How could pro's put something so sensitive like that out there? What is the reason? Justification? It smells of foul play!!!

    Lorin, I sincerely hope this helps your career and life in some way you can't imagine right now, and whoever did it is reading this right now thinking: why the fuck did I do that, and begins working on the most thorough apology a trickster has ever offered.

    There's a time to share music, and there's a time to be sensitive to the independent artists giving everything to their art.

    Be beautiful and support your lovely artists. Why should they have to spend days ( and possibly weeks) figuring out how their music got out, when they can be making more art to share. If you want to steal, imagine sticking your hand inside someone's chest and pulling out their beating heart. That's my poetic equivalent!!!! Anyone can stop at anytime, change their mind, and growwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
    • Re: stolen copies of my new album

      Thu, March 15, 2007 - 10:04 PM
      It's a sad reality of the music business in this day and age.. Just go on to any P2P program or any Torrent browser and search for ADVANCE..
      And to people thinking it's okay to download it just because you're going to buy it when it is available; Be reasonable. If you are going to download it, you are giving the oppertunity to someone else to download it from you, it is not all right.. I want to hear this album SO BAD.. I mean SOOOO BAD, but I don't want it to be unofficial, and quite possibly vocal tagged..
      Just wait it out..

      I kinda think this DISCussion is better left to die.. Only because people who are actually on the 'net looking for the said copy of the album are only going to be reaffirmed of it's availability.. This could just be promoting more piracy.. It's a double edged sword, that's for sure..

      Just tell your friends, BUY THE ALBUM, and don't make copies of it for anyone.. Buy a copy for the friend who doesn't have the dough to throw down, or the availability, WHATEVER.. Support this scene we are all so f-ing crazy about.. DO IT

      I myself, burn one copy of the original for myself, after I buy it, just to save the OG.. Sentimental purposes..

      Don't get me wrong I download my fair share of music.. I think it is also a double egded sword.. A great system for getting turned on to new things, but also something easily taken advantage of.. In the end it's another hurdle for an aspiring artist or musician to jump over..
      • Re: stolen copies of my new album

        Thu, March 15, 2007 - 10:48 PM
        agreed tyler. But the idea is this... you are on a majour label. you have test printings, you have promo copies. I think this stuff is basically out of control at this point...

        "Board games that want to get out"

        I don't agree with theft, hurting an artist, or anything... but we all know... like gossip, a good joke, or a new fashion....

        knowledge is relatively autonomous... and once something is in the public domain it is impossible to stop. No matter our beliefs. As far back as Thomas Jefferson that has been at issue....

        Again, I want to make it clear... I don't steal. I don't share. I am proud of it. I look at 80GB of digitized music, and every fucking track was purchased by me.

        Memes are intelligent information... there are theories that information is the entity, and we are simply the vehicle that moves it from one place or another.

        Whatever the case, I think if you ask what other OM artists have this problem... or what other artists are experiencing it.. it is common, and unavoidable.

        My touring friends who are seasoned and have released multiple albums are much more calm about it. Sort of "old hat, welcome to music as a business"

        AGAIN... nothing makes it right, but... for example. Lo said it could be professional death?

        Personally, I cannot think of one band in the history of time that has died due to bootlegging? Or more specifically, became artistically atrophied due to a pre release of an album.

        Don't mean to be centrist, but I don't want to go overboard on here. Most of my DJ friends are relatively confident they cannot lay domain over sampled beats anyway.... not to say that is about LO.

        Any help?
  • Re: stolen copies of my new album

    Fri, March 16, 2007 - 1:03 PM
    dude, even though i must admit that i do download a lot of music for free... i mainly use it to find what artists i like, because there is just so much music out there. after listening to the songs, i usually go out and purchase the albums themselves (for instance, motions of mutation and mezmerizing the ultra.). in this sense i am using the net as a tool. i've supported so many artists by buying their art, mostly locals - but thats who i think need it the most.

    i think its pretty rugged that somebody who was in a position of authority over your new cd abused their power, its downright disrespectful. all i got to tell you is that after hearing the tracks when you rolled in to vic, that my mind was made up to buy the cd - i wont even look at it until i've bought it, i hope that this is some reconciliation for you, cuz i know tonnes of people are going to do the same.

    peacio
    • Re: stolen copies of my new album

      Fri, March 16, 2007 - 7:02 PM
      If you enjoy the music, buy it. Support the artist. Period.

      On a related note, Lo... What sample was it that you couldn't get the rights for on Snakecharmer? I never did find out, and considering how many times we all enjoyed it I feel the need to go give that artist some love and support as well.

      ~Trilo~
      • Re: stolen copies of my new album

        Fri, March 16, 2007 - 10:04 PM
        I think it was Kardinall Offishall's Lyrics..
        • Re: stolen copies of my new album

          Sat, March 17, 2007 - 9:13 AM
          Here's a thought..

          If you have to send out 400 advanced copies of an album, vocal tag the tracks with numbers. It doesn't have to be anything annoying or over repetitive, just at the beginning break and end. Something like, "Bassnectar, Underground Communication copy # __..." Simple..
          Get an intern at the label to record himself, counting to 400.. Then you send your marked copies out to whichever labels, radio stations, magazines, whatever, ( I don't know who these things are meant for)... When the album gets leaked, which it most likely will, the number will be on every track, thus making it traceable back to the source..

          All you have to do is work out some legal mumbo jumbo with the label.. Some sort of contract which says something to the tune of, you will be held responsible if this album gets out..

          Really though, I doubt the recipients would go for this, mainly because that by listening to your album and giving it a review they are doing you a favor, or something.. I am not up on the business end of things, but I think they need to realise that leaking copies of advanced albums is hurting not only peoples sales, but record contracts and careers...

          If something like this were to become commonplace in the music industry, reviewers or whomever wouldn't have much of a choice but to oblige, or they will be missing out on getting the LowDown or whatever kind of prestige they get out of having an advanced copy of a hot fackin' album.. You know what I mean? So if they want to leak an album and it gets traced back to them, not only are they getting sued, but they are not going to get Advanced copies anymore, because, who REALLY wants to give their album out at all, nevermind to anyone who is going to leak it??

          I also heard on the radio a while back that bands like to name the album something obscure to try to avoid having it mass shared online before it's released..
          But like it has been said, it only takes someone with a computer and access to the internet to find a track listing to edit in song titles..

          I guess there is no sure fire way to stop pre release piracy, or any kind of piracy, except for possibly Net Neutrality.. But I think there are definitely processes which may help slow it down..

          I would like to hear other ideas..

          Thanks for your time..
          Over and Out..
          • Re: stolen copies of my new album

            Sat, March 17, 2007 - 9:55 PM
            wow, lorin, that pretty much blows.

            ethically speaking, the ease of file sharing is a sticky wicket for all of us, no question about it, and i think we all have to give it a long thinking over.

            it's unfortunately the sort of thing that does not get resolved by punitive measures. it has to be resolved more at the level of personal responsibility.

            i spend my summers at music events and make most of my money at music events. whenever possible, i support artists, and make a particular point of trying to support small artists and small labels. i made a point for many, many, many years to buy every new ani difranco release, and buy it from "jack's rhythms", the local (new paltz, ny) cd store that i knew would get her discs on the day of their release. it felt really good because i knew i was supporting everyone on the food chain in a very direct way... jack, ani, her "righteous babe records" label, etc.

            and even though i can't feel as karmically clean about buying a concert ticket for a clear channel venue, or buying a disc i know is produced by a clear channel owned label / affiliate / etc. at some point a rationalization has to come into play for me to think it's ok to take one person's music without paying and not feel the same about taking another person's music. and that ethical grey area is the place that i think deserves the most attention...

            but then over the winter, i get curious and dabble in bittorrent. i type in "rolling stones" and come up with one file... 3 gigs for the entire rolling stones discography... that's, what? forty five albums or so. i have owned maybe half of them. many i've owned on tape, vinyl and disc. it's the rolling stones. they're filthy rich. i've gladly paid $50 to see them and would have paid more. i'd gladly pay to see them any chance i get and it's only been circumstance that's kept me from seeing them more than once. but, nevertheless, it's only rationalization (and curiousity at how bittorrent works) that got me to travel down the slippery slope of grabbing one file with their entire discography... that shit's napster on steroids. the music industry has reason to be terrified of this technology. as do artists. and music lovers. because if we follow the trajectory, what do we want? for our artists to starve or subsidize their income at dairy queen?

            your scenario sounds among the worst case scenarios, i must admit:

            what happened to you is definitely in the realm of "worst possible scenario" for file sharing...

            - up and coming artist (you) with small but rabid cult following (that's us!) sends out pre-release press cds
            - some scalliwag who should have more credibility uses this as his / her opportunity to impress friends and amaze pets by showing how hooked they are to have this pre-release and uploads it to the world.
            - small label and underground artist are both compromised because they won't get the mileage out of their big release if their core fans have heard (and "own") the tunes already.

            thank you for putting this story on here simply because i think it helps for each of us individually to really consider the ramifications of our own appetites for piracy.

            full disclosure: i bought the early release of diverse systems of throb off your merch table at one of the first ny freek factory parties, but i ripped my housemate's (store bought) copy of "mesmerizing the ultra" into my itunes. i'll buy the disc and enjoy the packaging (and convenience of owning a disc) in the not too distant future. and your next one, to boot.

            i'm saying all of this because i realize that the rationalizing part of my brain is also the hypocritical part of my brain. i want to be a supporter of artists, and i want to hear every bit of music i can get my hands on and i know i can't afford to do both. radio has pretty much become a useless tool for hearing new stuff that i like, so a rationalization kicks in somewhere. i think we're all in a boat of this sort and i hope we can all start to come up with a middle ground between shelling out $15 / disc for every platter that catches our interest and just paying a quarter for a blank disc to burn a copy, or nothing and grabbing a lower quality copy off the net.

            well, best of luck with the damage control. and if you find out who leaked your disc, i think you are WELL within your rights to smear their name in the industry. they clearly can't handle confidentiality and that should be made public.
            • Re: stolen copies of my new album

              Sun, March 18, 2007 - 10:24 PM
              yeah

              thanks for the love, yall

              again, really wanna make it clear: i want to adress this topic cuz its fascinating, AND vitally important

              altho i com off as hardcore or staunch, i am really not looking for sympathy or in any way WOE-IS-ME-ING here...my life is SO BLESSED, the music is SO ROCKING< people are flipping the fuck out, and bouncing back, and reflecitng, and the whole things in motion, set to full swing


              giving thanks!
              :)
              • Re: stolen copies of my new album

                Mon, March 19, 2007 - 8:27 PM
                "i want to adress this topic cuz its fascinating, AND vitally important "

                brilliant sir... brilliant. We solve problems through discourse, and helping enlighten people to the facts. A lot of people don't want to even address it... social issues. Feeling as if they don't speak of it, it isn't really happening.

                Well this is huge, and your comments from the above post are wise and exciting... to see that you are rising above and just attempting communication! Right on!
  • Re: stolen copies of my new album

    Mon, March 19, 2007 - 2:31 AM
    I think I can sympathize with some people's extreme likeness towards your music in such a way that when a whole new album of their favorite artist becomes available by way of downloading for free (and only by downloading for free), that they cant resist the urge to indulge. But, I'm assuming that these same people are a) not offering it to the masses for upload, and b) buying the CD when it is released or offering compensation of some sort. it's an interesting situation.

    i bought your last album and will buy this one. i guess i can wait another month ;-)
    • Re: stolen copies of my new album

      Mon, March 19, 2007 - 11:52 PM
      I love a lot of artists and musicians. But i can't pay for all their CDs. Does it mean i can't listen to their music?
      • Re: stolen copies of my new album

        Wed, March 21, 2007 - 7:54 AM

        Then you listen to the music on radio, or internet radio, and the artist is payed through advertising or subscription fees.

        if you want to "own" the music, then you should pay for it.

        -troy
        • Re: stolen copies of my new album

          Wed, March 21, 2007 - 10:52 PM
          ahhaha this thread is redicilous. maybe if your music is so valued and precious you shouldn't be handing it out left and right so some random guy who doesnt care about you in the slightest can rip it onto his computer and share it with all his buddies, especially not someone like yourself making a career out of electronic music. now that is just unprofessional now isnt it?


          :PPPPP


          haha ya be more careful, welcome to the world of unreleased tracks


          gerald
          • Re: stolen copies of my new album

            Thu, March 22, 2007 - 6:54 AM
            I had ttyped up something in response Jowy....but I realize you dont see the point.

            Lorin isnt handing out copies...these are advance promo copies that all record companies send out.


            Lo is one of the most professional guys Ive met.
            • Re: stolen copies of my new album

              Thu, March 22, 2007 - 3:13 PM
              promos to who? if you have 400 distros hooked up to your label i dont think you have to worry. 400 promo copies is a lot. With this many it is expected that it will hit the net especially if theyre just sending it to other labels. People you give unreleased tracks to should be very close and trusted. I dont give out promos to my friends, the only people that get copies of the cd are the artists and my exclusive distro and i dont have to worry about people offering me my own cd in wav on the net. I do not really feel like this is uncommon but i guess that would vary from genre to genre.


              -g
              • Re: stolen copies of my new album

                Fri, March 23, 2007 - 8:25 AM
                Horrible! Of course i will still BUY a copy even though i could have it RIGHT NOW>

                I think maybe you should be on your own label if you can afford to do that.....not worry about anyone else but yourself to do releases...that way no contracts are broken with anyone.

                Then all you have to worry about is raking in the money on tours (for the most part)-- which is good cash compared to what i make concrete finishing.
                • Re: stolen copies of my new album

                  Fri, March 23, 2007 - 8:04 PM
                  when was the last time someone bought music? It had been awhile for me... but my DJ crew finally said they would kick my ass if I didn't by new singles. $150 in records about a week ago.

                  You guys?

                  Lorin?

                  Just wondering?

                  How much you spend annually?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: stolen copies of my new album

                    Fri, March 23, 2007 - 8:39 PM
                    I spend about 50 bucks a pay cheque on music..
                    • Re: stolen copies of my new album

                      Sat, March 24, 2007 - 12:47 AM
                      $60 annually....usually on friends mix cds.
                      • Re: stolen copies of my new album

                        Sat, March 24, 2007 - 9:03 AM
                        yea...quite a bit of my money goes to cds
                        • Re: stolen copies of my new album

                          Sat, March 24, 2007 - 10:22 AM
                          I spend more money going to shows, which, I think, helps the artist more.. I could be wrong.. I would be interested to find out..
                          • Re: stolen copies of my new album

                            Sat, March 24, 2007 - 4:31 PM
                            depends on the contract the artist has with the promoter. if they do a flat fee or a guarantee+backend depending on attendance. I've found many bands work on a guarantee+backend ex... "I'll guarantee you $1000 but if you sell out I'll pay you another $1000).

                            If you go to the shows, then it demonstrates to the promoters that its worth to bring that artist back as they are in demand, thus they'll probably get a bigger guarantee and/or more generous backend next time.

                            then, the other question is.....how much is that artist getting per cd?
                          • Re: stolen copies of my new album

                            Sat, March 24, 2007 - 6:31 PM
                            I spend more money to go to shows also...BUT on that same note..I buy music at shows too!!! MORE $$$ GOES IN THE POCKET OF THE PERFORMER AT SHOWS THAN FROM A STORE!

                            I usually always buy a cd at every show Im at....a shirt also
                            • Re: stolen copies of my new album

                              Sat, March 24, 2007 - 9:53 PM
                              Yeah that's what I was meaning to say.. If there is merch available, and granted it doesn't suck, I'll buy it.

                              And I should clear up, I don't spend more than 50 bucks a month at shows, but whenever there is a show, I am there..
                              • Re: stolen copies of my new album

                                Sat, March 24, 2007 - 10:32 PM
                                one more interesting ingredient factor here is that often times, units sold at shows DONT end up getting officially registered as sales,

                                and as i said before (at least for me) selling units isnt about making money at this point in my life, its about generating sales, so i can get more support for the larger international music circuit, thus distributing my thoughts, beliefs and creations to wider and wider audiences
                                :)
                                • Re: stolen copies of my new album

                                  Sat, March 24, 2007 - 11:11 PM
                                  That kinda sucks..
                                  Maybe it's an idea to jack up prices for CDs at shows..
                                  :|
                                  • Re: stolen copies of my new album

                                    Sun, March 25, 2007 - 4:11 AM
                                    Lo, I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a sec. First off, I'm with ya. on supporting musicians and their work. Being one myself, I dig. When my bros give me their tracks, a lot of stuff that is unreleased, I make it a point not to make ANY copies without their prior consent. It's a big freakin' deal. That's exactly what I expect when I give a DVD of SatsiVision or a cd of unreleased SatsiSonik.

                                    Now, onto Beelzebub's Advocacy. Do you own all of your software licenses? You don't have to answer, just asking. That goes for all of you. I'm surprised how often I hear of people who haven't paid one dime for any of their software. That's grand larceny, technically, cuz most good software (like Ableton Live) goes for over $500 easy. Some apps list for thousands... Anyhow...My 4 year career as a software developer came to an abrupt end when they closed up shop on my entire group of 40 plus folks a week before Xmas and susbsequently moved all the development up to Montreal. The product I worked on, combustion, had 1500 registered license owners. When we released our first big point release for 2.0, we had close to 45000 downloads of the update in the first 48 hours of it being up on our website. The product originally sold for $5k, then they dropped it to $2500, then finally to $900, but that still didn't stop the bleeding. Version 2.0 sold briefly for $5k, then $2500 (the last version I worked on-3.0-sold for $900), so when we do the math, that's close to $11 MILLION in unrealized revenue. Do you think I ever got a raise? Hell no. Piracy pretty much claimed our whole group cuz sales never got to where they needed to be. There are a lot of small developers out there making great software that gets swapped left and right everyday. The company I worked for was pretty big and owned it's other markets, so they actually could wether all the piracy, but they were very staunch opponents of piracy were and a founding member of the Software Business Alliance, an organization that hunts down big software thieves. Still, piracy is somehow someway ingrained in the human spirit since we set sail. Bit torrents can come in really handy sometimes...alas. Time to walk the plank...

                                    Now, back to the music thing. That was pretty lame. I think OM has a certain responsibility to find whoever leaked it, but that may never happen. I'd imagine that kind of detective work might be a bit more hectic than it's worth. Still, I hope for you and other musicians/labels don't suffer this kind of egregious breach of trust, not to mention maybe a tort of sorts. But man, we live in a digital era where IP is what's being traded-fairly or not, IP that can be software, music, movies, photos, etc, etc. There are a lot of vested interests from big industry folks who are working on Digital Rights Management to protect their content, as well as taking steps to rein in cyberpirates, but the cyberpirates will always be one step ahead of the LAW and the INDUSTRY. I strongly believe that there is a shit ton of entrepreneurial opportunities for us as individuals and a community in devising new methods, innovations, markets, delivery, ect of digital content. Apple has lead the way with the iTunes store, and now we have sites like Addictech.com (BUY MUSIC FROM THEM!! THEY RULE!) and Beatport. Still DRM has a long way to go before it can be effectively deployed on a broad scale with seamless playback on the users end, but with DRM comes a whole lot of other vested industry interests that often impinge upon the customer, maybe even the authors. It'll be a few more years until that silver bullet appears, so until then, we have to work on good faith that fans will support the Cause by buying the goods and representing propa.

                                    Unintended consequences? It happens when you're in a paradigm shift like we are now, but people swapping music has been around ever since the good ole reel to reel. And then there's the MIX TAPE. Aww yeah...tapes, I still have those green and red mix tapes you did last century. ;)

                                    But for now, brudda, you're gonna be just fine. The album is gonna do great. Your vision will manifest. Nothing can stop this train.

                                    YARRRMASTE.
                                    • Re: stolen copies of my new album

                                      Sun, March 25, 2007 - 8:22 AM
                                      "But for now, brudda, you're gonna be just fine. The album is gonna do great. Your vision will manifest. Nothing can stop this train."

                                      Word.

                                      The new CD is gonna be HUGE, I can feeeeeeeeeel it.

                                      ;)
                                      • ~gotta have breakdowns to have breakthroughs~

                                        Sun, March 25, 2007 - 5:56 PM
                                        first off~
                                        as a virginDj
                                        i have gotten invaluable info from this thread foe sure.....
                                        I guess what I'm left with is the concept of 'integrity'
                                        and how crucial it is to live by this standard no matter what
                                        one creates in their life.
                                        we are all interconnected through language and thoughts
                                        as we create eachother and ourselves in each moment
                                        each thought, word and action ricashade out into ever widening
                                        concentric circles of being not only effecting those closest to us but also
                                        effecting people and weather patterns
                                        on the other side of the planet.......
                                        with that said it seems that this is another one of those
                                        crucial OP to recreate a bummerdeal into an experience
                                        of empowerment and integrity not only personally (mrDJ) but also
                                        collectively as a tribal community. People that challenge us (pirates, Bushadmin, parents) etc
                                        are definitly our biggest teachers and it is up to us to challenge their limited framework of integrity and honor
                                        by responding dynamicly utilizing the force of oneness....
                                        thanks for this opportunity to reflect and thanks everyone for taking the time to recreate this into an experience of love**
                                        *music is food*
                                        *to eat is to live*
                                        *to truly live is to give*
                                        mreeeow~
          • Re: stolen copies of my new album

            Sun, March 25, 2007 - 10:59 PM
            anybody can rip a cd into their computer and give it to teir friends so they look cool, unless they arent soul-less sleeping people unaware of the ripple affect that these kinds of things create,
            much like how i feel after reading this posting.
            • Re: stolen copies of my new album

              Sun, March 25, 2007 - 11:03 PM
              and be careful of the sucking data cloud
              it only gives and recieves
              • Re: stolen copies of my new album

                Mon, March 26, 2007 - 9:09 AM
                I give that data cloud a happy ending... and it gives all over my chest.

                ewww...

                joke. I don't use streaming services. I have too much music without it. (never too much).

                Anyhoo.. I think just because people haven't been raised well, trained to the issues, given the critical faculties of what is ethically dubious and not.... doesn't make them souless.

                Which is a lot for me as I don't believe in one. But you dig what I am saying... cognitive illusions and mental mistakes are not always issues of intelligence.
  • Re: stolen copies of my new album

    Mon, March 26, 2007 - 10:45 AM
    hi, i can totally understand your point with an open mind, but i remember being a little girl and tape recording music all the time. and as for burning a cd its the same. we all share music and its defintely more wide spread so you can see all the copies/money being missed, but there are way more people nowadays and its gonna happen anyway, ive always boughten your cds and i have burned the music too because i lost the cds somewhere during the years. i would never use your art and call it my own. that is an artists' rule. but we definelty are influenced by people subconsciously all the time. so drawing the line at that, i can see. i think you should always voice yourself , it doesnt make me think less of you to be pissed off, you are not just a dj anymore, so to speak, and you are entitled to all of which you earned. i think you are fantastic and you will get the response you want. i will buy your new cd. when is that pre shambles party???love g
    • Re: stolen copies of my new album

      Mon, March 26, 2007 - 2:41 PM
      There is a HUGE difference between burning a copy of an artists work for yourself, or a friend for that matter, and posting an unreleased album on a peer to peer network ( uncompressed format? ) for any and all to download.

      The former warrants a philosophical discussion, some of which has been addressed in this thread.

      We have all purchased albums that were lost over the years. Who wouldn't feel entitled to burning a copy for themselves having already supported the artist's work by buying it previously. This is one of the "rationales" mentioned that I happen to whole heartedly agree with.

      In general I have found everyone's input about this subject thought provoking as we do live in a new age with our ever evolving technology redefining the playing field. I believe most people want to see the artists they connect with enabled to continue to create what ultimately both sides of the equation love. While the rules constantly change, our own desire to hear something new remains constant. Access to fresh tracks is becoming increasingly available, with little or no effort involved. How many times have you told a friend that you liked something only to have them respond by saying "let me burn it for you." ?

      Seems like we are in the midst of evaluating how to strike a healthy balance for all involved within the convoluted dynamics of the situation. I know I for one have found myself examining and redefining my own perspectives based on this discussion.

      now for the flipside...

      To post someone's unreleased album on a file sharing network is absolutely deplorable. It is SO completely over the line that I cannot even imagine how one would go about defending the action. It's a bitch ass move, plain and simple....
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: stolen copies of my new album

    Tue, March 27, 2007 - 4:47 PM
    Lorin, from now on... we NEEEED to put a voiceover of you (or me :) saying "This is a PROMO copy... buy this CD" or something more humorous... every 1:00 in the song. The music could fade down like 6-10dB and the voice could come in. Obviously JUST for the promo copies that get sent out.

    And more obviously I'm totally kidding since those promo copies are in fact, the actual album in its final entirety.

    But wouldn't an Audio Watermark/Signature be a helpful invention for this?

    Anyone know anything about that?
    • Re: stolen copies of my new album

      Tue, March 27, 2007 - 5:09 PM
      Sayr...THATS A GREAT IDEA!!!!!

      kinda like a on a radio broadcast has their time to make their station ID

      HA!

      that'll teach em!!!
      • Re: stolen copies of my new album

        Tue, March 27, 2007 - 6:26 PM
        Yeah but you can't do that for promos cuz it has to be 100% representative of the final product.

        But watermarking...hmmm. I know they do that for members of the Academy of Motion Pictures who get DVD's of theatrical releases for screening-or at least they used to. Each DVD gets it's own watermark with their info on it, so if it gets ripped and put up on filesharing sites, the Academy can find out whose copy it was ripped from...I know that they were trying to implement a hardware encryption scheme specific to a DVD player (Cinea-a division of Dolby was working on that), but I don't know where that stands now. Point is, there is technology out there that can to some extent protect unreleased content.
        • Re: stolen copies of my new album

          Tue, March 27, 2007 - 7:34 PM
          Watermarking will only get you so far - look at all the NARAS screeners that wind up on the internet!

          There's just about nothing you can do to stop people from passing around copies - before, during, or after the release happens. Keep working on compelling content, and use the internet to your advantage. I just saw a mind-blowing turn on the concept a few weeks ago - with the band Nine Inch Nails, they're actually intentionally leaking tracks from their upcoming release. They've been dropping 320kbps MP3 files on USB drives at the venues for their recent tour stops, along with clues and hints and references to dozens of different web sites that tie into the album's theme (it's a concept record about a totalitarian society... kinda cool backstory, actually). Rather than just sit back and bitch about how the internet is stealing from them and hurting sales, revenue, etc, Trent Reznor and the gang are actually using the internet to further engage fans in the content of the record. As if that wasn't enough, he has also released the multi-track audio files for the first single on his web site, and has announced the intention to release every track on the album in a similar fashion over the next couple months. He did something similar with his last record, and rather than destroying sales, it went on to be one of the band's best-selling releases.

          As for the units sold at shows not counting on the charts, that's probably something that the label needs to report to Soundscan (the people who tally those numbers). I'm not sure why they wouldn't be doing that, unless they've got a distribution contract somewhere that prohibits them from direct sales. If that's the case, there's not much you can do (since technically the label wouldn't be allowed to sell those copies).

          ~Trilo~
    • Re: stolen copies ... audio water marks...

      Thu, April 5, 2007 - 3:34 PM
      well, the movie industry does it all the time. 100s of dvd go out to academy members to vote for the oscars every year, many of which have not yet hit the dvd market.. and for the ones that have already, they do not want joe the viewer or video store owner to get 'em and burn 'em and rent 'em out at the video store 'cuz that deprives artists and studio of their residuals/$$ and any acurate sales tabulations.

      i mention this 'cuz it is entirely plausible to do audio watermarks and would simply become industry standard as it is in the film industry. the dvds all have this banner that reads "property of Paramount Pictures" [or whichever studio] which will fade in and fade outta the bottom of the screen every like 3-5 minutes... it's annoying until you get used to it. it does nothing to truly take away from the story/visual mastery.

      something to consider. it works..
  • Re: stolen copies of my new album

    Thu, March 29, 2007 - 5:30 PM
    We are talking about two different things: 1 stealing the unreleased copies of an album
    2 burning CDs
    Those are completely different. Unreleased copies are not something pretty common. And of course the bad guy is the one that steal the music.
    For burning CD. In practice, mostly very body does it. In theory, is it really bad? Apparently in this capitalist society it is. But we know there are many paradoxes with capitalist society. One: if we follow this logic (capitalist) then the guy who invented the piano could sue every body who is using a piano to make money. Then the same with all electronic components for electronic music. This is ridiculous.

    Second paradox: How many musicians and artists would not be there if they had not ripped music illegally in their childhood? Almost all.
    • Re: stolen copies of my new album

      Thu, March 29, 2007 - 6:14 PM
      Well just remember there are things called "copyright"...and publishing-the place musicians used to make most of their money off of their copyrighted works...the digital age has radically changed the publishing world. I think we're all still doing our best to figure how it's gonna affect us in both the short-term and long-term. It's a brave new world.

      If Bartolomeo Cristofori still had a patent still in effect on the piano, yeah he could sue everybody, but he died in the 18th century. If you invent something or compose something and have a patent and/or copyright, yeah, you're entitled to benefit from sales of your intellectual property. If someone skirts a copyright or patent, they technically have committed a tort-a wrongful act or an infringement of a right leading to legal liability. The issue comes down to enforcement. That's the tricky part, esp something that is widely distributed like music. It's not ridiculous. In some cases, one's livelihood depends on it. People just don't understand that and simply don't give a fuck. It's not done out of malice, though, in most cases, so...I guess we all need to be educated a lil. Works can be WIDELY distributed now in an incredibly short amount of time, which has the potential to really cut into the short-term gains the artis/author deserves and needs in order to keep their work relevant to the labels and/or publishers. All they care about is the bottom line. Sad, but so damned true. I think that's part of why-beyond it was just WRONG-Lo has been so vocal on this topic. This CD is his first BIG release and a HUGE step for our long-haired paesan.
      • Re: stolen copies of my new album

        Thu, March 29, 2007 - 7:44 PM
        and along with what Satsi just said, my sister and her fiance are both entertainment lawyers who work for Capital/EMI in their digital music dept. and are currently writing up stuff to be able to counteract situations like this very thing, because there are no real laws written in books about digtal music and the likes.
        • Re: stolen copies of my new album

          Thu, March 29, 2007 - 8:13 PM
          And some other food for thought following up on Hoops: labels have lawyers to enforce these kinds of things. Independent artists usually don't. That's the big difference now between the good ole days of making mix tapes compared to today's burning cd's and/or file sharing. The artists we were recording onto cassettes we're usually signed artists on labels, ie, they had resources and a spot-from big to small-in the music marketplace. Today's marketplace is soooooo different. On one hand, independent artists have access to broader audiences, yet the market isn't clearly established and is just now starting to shape up. In a lot of ways, that determines an artist's viability and staying power, so making a copy or file sharing an independent's work can be devastating and possibly career ending. We are talking about careers here. Not hobbies. It's exciting to finally have an end around the 3 or 4 major distributors and in turn the plethora of big labels still chugging along, but this paradigm shift we're in turns the onus way more onto the artist when it comes to the numbers game. Most artists would agree taking care of biz is a real pain in the ass, but someone's gotta do it, else you might as well stay a hobbyist. Hats off to the artists who can be savvy yet still drop mad work. Ani DiFranco is a great example.

          The "music industry" as was born from the fields of Woodstock is an aging dinosaur that must quickly adapt to a new marketplace, else go extinct. That's why I think newer labels will eventually supplant the dinos of yesteryear. Still, labels will and should continue to exist, but they must be flexible and innovative in so many ways. It's a good way to manifest a broader vision that concentrates talent into one media portal that balances message, medium, and commerce into one compelling space/experience-both for artists and patrons. Portal. Umm...portal. :)
          • Re: stolen copies of my new album

            Fri, March 30, 2007 - 2:52 AM
            It is a bit interesting that Lorin,s tour is all about "net neutrality" and this dilema of the album
            that someone got legitimately as a promo from Lo's record company, decided to fuck him / them
            over, yes they did.

            Let me just say there is NO EXCUSE FOR IT !

            Although it does bring some interesting questions to mind.

            Is there a way to protect the rights of the artist without treading into the murky waters of internet censorship, and or metering and regulating what is shared traded transfered from one user to the next. IE "first amendment rights"

            I suppose it comes down to morality and respect. However I suspect that there are those who would use situations like this do do bidding for internet regulation. As I am sure Lorin is not the first or last one this will happen to. And the cooperations who control the majority of what people see and hear on and off the net can and will use this argument and thier love of $, witch feeds into the pockets of neocons as fuel to fire up the machines of media control.

            Please don't get me wrong I fully agree that we need to support our artists, and not steal from them or anyone for that matter. As I am one myself. Not to mention it's just wrong wrong wrong.

            It will be interesting to see what happens next. I for one hope that the internet remains free and unregulated (as it can be). Actually it is already watched scanned scrutinized , studied for patterns, trends, subversive content, and merket analysis every second of every day.

            Let the tour begin



            • Re: stolen copies of my new album

              Fri, March 30, 2007 - 4:59 PM
              i've had a copy pulled off a torrent for some time now.
              i will happily give my first born child and $15 to lorin just for the joy i've experienced over the past couple of weeks listening to it.
              i will go to the shows, i will buy a legit copy, i will give lorin a hug (if he still loves me after admitting this).
              i will share the love that lorin shares with us free of cost to others
              i will encourage the others to support the man who shares so much with us.
              but it is up to them to do what they will.
  • Re: stolen copies of my new album

    Sun, April 1, 2007 - 2:51 PM
    First of all ... great show last night at DNA. Incredible. Thank you SO much!

    I have one thing to say on this topic of your "stolen" music: it wasn't stolen. Stolen implies that you lost something and someone else gained it. I'll bet that many of the people who download your music from the internet would be more than happy to *pay* to download it in DRM-free, unencumbered, digital form. CDs are a DEAD medium. I'm surprised that in this day and age, you release to CD and *not* online first. After the first time I saw you, I immediately went to your web site so that I could buy "Mesmerizing the Ultra" online. But I couldn't find DRM-free versions ANYWHERE. I had no choice, if I wanted that album, but to (1) buy it on CD, or (2) download it from p2p networks.

    I, for one, don't buy CDs anymore. Please make electronic copies available as DRM-free paid downloads!
    • RELEASED before its time!!!

      Sun, April 1, 2007 - 4:22 PM
      " it wasn't stolen. Stolen implies that you lost something and someone else gained it."

      That’s a fucked up definition of stolen! When someone takes something from my car, house, or person! My first feeling isn't I lost it or I misplaced it somewhere! My call to the police isn’t! "Mr. Officer I think I misplaced everything in my house!"

      You plain sound lazy! Its all available everywhere make a little effort or wait a few days! You basically said I’m not going to buy it! And your argument would make you one BAD lawyer!

      His point was, it was REALEASED before its time when he gave it to trusted people! THAT IS UPSETTING and WRONG! If it’s online a month from now that is SAD but not as terrible as RELEASING IT BEFORE ITS TIME!!! DAMN PEOPLE!!! In this day of music it’s going to happen once its public! IT WASNT PUBLIC!

      I ask you to do something SPECIAL and buy the fucking album and support the Artist! Or just shut up and be like everyone else. Don’t come to the artist face and say I’m going to STEAL YOUR SHIT! BRAG SOMEWHERE ELSE.

      Lorin does a great job in letting us talk to him here! How many artist do that?
      • Re: RELEASED before its time!!!

        Sun, April 1, 2007 - 4:36 PM
        hi all
        :)

        thanks for the feedback

        jeffrey, the album is being released April 24, and will be simultaneously available on CD and digital formats.

        i had to pull mad mad strings to get it available for friends, family, freaks, and avid listeners EARLY at these release 'parties'
        :)

        it isnt officially released yet. when it is, on april 24, twill be avail digitally for sure...OM knows what theys doin an i trust.

        but yeah, it was most certainly stolen. those were promo CDs that were specifically meant ONLY for select members of press and media for promo only...not for a SINGLE 'fan' of the music.

        i have not given my best friends, my family, or even some of the collaborators a copy yet. i have personally only recieved 2 copies before last week.

        then the stealing happened online when hundereds and hundereds of people downloaded the full length album for free, against my will months before its release.

        personally i am OVER it....i just like the topic being in the light.

        im not still worrying about it, but i had to write in response so yu had a clearer idea of why i feel it is accurate to use the word stolen

        thanks to all folks who came out and raged last two nights... felt realllyl fucking good and really intense
        :)


        i would also like to stipulate, (hopefully on behalf of everyone on this forum) that the typing is a WIERD way to communicate, i cant tell yu how many times i have misunderstood someone or been miusunderstood, and i dont think anyone on here means anything harshly, but regardles, i NEVER do, i just like to discuss openly.

        i hope nobody ever feels shut down by what i write on here.
        thanks again for all feedback and opinion
        • Re: RELEASED before its time!!!

          Sun, April 1, 2007 - 4:40 PM
          Yo Lo. Show last night was really amazing. Good times.

          Got the new disc, rocked it twice late night/early morning. Underground Comm. is a true auditory pleaser.
          Looking forward to some great summer fest spots, as well.

          Quick query... Will UC be released on our best bud, wax.
          I would think OM would be down to release full LP.

          Have a blast up N. and beyond
      • Re: RELEASED before its time!!!

        Sun, April 1, 2007 - 4:39 PM
        I bought Lorin's cd last night at DNA. Besides the music KICKING SERIOUS ASS, the artwork rocks & the liner notes are incredibly well written. There is so much credit given to everyone involved, and the sincerity of it shines through. I was personally touched by that.
        You could never get that from a download. Worth every penny!
  • Re: stolen copies of my new album

    Sun, April 1, 2007 - 4:34 PM
    Even if I did somehow come by your music free of charge, I'd still purchase the cd because I love and adore all your productions and respect your hard work.

    much love

    ocean
    • Re: stolen copies of my new album

      Sun, April 1, 2007 - 5:32 PM
      is it too early to inquire when 'Undaground Communication' is going to be administered to the Big Island???reading all this has me impatient to receive the new stuffin a live setting...... after actually getting single tracks from the previous albums ala friends i went ahead and bot the double cd on bassnectar.net, it was only liike 13bucks for a double cd!! .........awhile ago, i was blessed to get the 'Motions of Mutation' right outta Lorins hand, felt good.... Thanks and ALOHA
  • Re: stolen copies of my new album

    Tue, April 3, 2007 - 8:41 PM
    Hey Lorin...that really blows that people downloaded your new cd before it even hit the stores !!! Even worse is that someone supposed to be trustworthy in the media leaked a copy out and it got burned online !!! It just really sucks to think that some person in the biz would have the balls to do that to such a nice person as yourself. Karma will get the person that leaked it out. I personally cant wait to buy it later this month. Im sure that your cd is well worth the wait my friend !! I wish you the best on your new cd release and of course on your touring as well.

    ~John

    p.s. We NEED you in RENO sometime soon !!!
  • Re: stolen copies of my new album

    Wed, April 4, 2007 - 3:05 AM
    I'm sorry doll.

    I heart you lo.

    see you friday...

    leg-warm-errrrrz.

    *a
    • Re: stolen copies of my new album

      Wed, April 4, 2007 - 9:11 AM
      This whole neverending topic, from why Lorin doesn't want his live shows taped to this current issue of his new album being uploaded to P2P before it was even released has a nice silver lining...it raises consciousness about the effects unfettered music-sharing can have on the musicians themselves.

      I've had the new CD 'Underground Communication' since Friday's show in Santa Cruz, and since it is so damn fine, I tell people I love it, and their first inevitable response is "Sweet, burn me a copy!"

      And there was a time when I totally would have, no problem. Share the love, spread the good vibes, all that kind of thinking. I swear, I have burned SO many copies of Spearhead's music for friends in the name of "spreading the love" that I probably ought to donate some funds to them.

      Of course i haven't made any copies of "Underground Communication," instead letting them know it's totally worth buying and it'll be out soon. I tell them the artist made a request that his fans not share the CD like that, and everyone seems cool with that answer.

      I think it's great that Lorin participates here with his fans on these Tribe discussions boards, as it was only from hearing an independent artist voice his concerns over piracy that my own perspective was able to shift so much on the subject.

      (yay Tribe! yay Internet! yay Net Neutrality!)
  • Re: stolen copies of my new album

    Wed, April 4, 2007 - 4:24 PM
    Lorin,

    Love ya and looking forward to seeing you in Eugene tomorrow!!!!!

    I sympathize with your sense of loss on this, but I'm not in agreement with your premises.

    Premise: an album shared via p2p is a lost sale.

    This simply isn't true. No data from any study or from any record label verifies this. Most of us download music to check it out. P2p serves the same function that radio used to. It allows people to listen to new stuff and evaluate it. The benefit of p2p is that it is not controlled by a cartel. This is a boon to musicians. Most of us who get turned onto an artist end up spending lots of money on albums and shows. I'd encourage you to use p2p as a strategy rather than an adversary.

    Premise: an album shared via p2p will affect your label negatively.

    Again this simply isn't true, and probably the opposite is true. The biggest impediment to your selling shit loads of albums is not priracy, it is obscurity. You're a fucking awesome rockstar but the truth is that 99.9% of world has never even heard of you. Ever. At all. Nadda. The more people who know about you and get a chance to hear your music - the more revenue that will be generated for your label. Its free advertising and its the best kind of promotion - peer based and grassroots.

    Premise: people downloading your music ( even prerelease ) are hurting you.

    I disagree. The fact is they are generating lots of hype. People like your stuff so much that hundreds if not thousands of copies are being listened to right now - and it hasn't even been released!!!!! The impact of music sharing is ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE GREATER than any promotion your label could ever do, especially if you actively work with it rather than fighting it.

    Regardless of whether you embrace the reality of content and distribution, you're going to get the benefits. You'll sell more albums than you ever thought possible. You'll do bigger shows than you ever thought possible. You'll impact people in more ways than you ever thought possible. All because people were turned onto you by someone and they were immeadiately able to check you out for themselves.

    Let go of control and fall into abundance.

    Fondly,

    Michael.
  • Re: stolen copies of my new album

    Fri, April 6, 2007 - 3:38 PM
    ....that's kind of ironic, given that in a fully regulated & gov't controlled internet that kind of thing would be less likely to happen....

    but it still sucks.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: stolen copies of my new album

      Sat, November 24, 2007 - 9:11 AM
      WELCOME TO OUR LIL' SHOP @ THE BASSNECTAR LABS
      This is the spot to refill your dosage of the nectar for yourself. Money generated from this page goes directly back into making more music, or into political causes that need support. We ain't buying yachts, sippin' on gin and juice, nor are we LAID BACK with our mind on our money and our money on our mind. Not in the slightest. But we do need donations and contributions to keep the labs running, so...

      THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT. MAY YOU BE NOURISHED!

      <i hope this makes up for in a small way all the d/l's I've doen the last 8 yrs>

      shop.bassnectar.net/
  • Re: stolen copies of my new album

    Sat, November 24, 2007 - 10:37 AM
    way to express yourself Lorin (:
    • Re: stolen copies of my new album

      Mon, November 26, 2007 - 5:11 PM
      heya

      i got a bunch of emails over the past few days of people sayin they heard i was just ripped off, and i guess some folks were concerned (THANKS!) but just to be clear...

      this was a huge hassle from back in January 2007...its an old issue, not new news.

      that said, still mighty relevant for all artists, and will only continue to be more so

      much love
      • Re: stolen copies of my new album

        Mon, January 21, 2008 - 1:02 PM
        Being in the bassnectar tribe says I identify as having a devotion to bass.

        Doesn't mean I listen to Bass Nectar!

        And since I can't afford it and in respect 2 Lorendz spells, I just, won't, hear it.
        Or download it.
        (again)
        • Re: stolen copies of my new album

          Tue, January 22, 2008 - 4:24 PM
          I can roll down my window when I drive by and turn it up.

          Actually... I think Prince is the guy who took it too far. He wanted to remove a youtube clip of a baby dancing to "let's go crazy"

          The music was ambient....

          news.cnet.co.uk/software/0...3793,00.htm

          in the background.

          Where do you people stand on this? I mean, it is suggesting that I can purchase an album....

          ... but no one else can hear it. That is stupid.
          • Re: stolen copies of my new album

            Thu, January 24, 2008 - 12:03 PM
            I buy Lorin's albums because I support HIM. He is someone who I have watched succeed as an artist more up close then any other musician or artist that I have seen or listened to. Ive met him and connected, and since then heard his communications asking for folks support in not downloading his music. That coupled with the fact that i also enjoy his music has lead me to only purchase his music instead of downloading it for free.

            That being said, I welcome this new age of rapid information dissemination. I even say this as an artist and a musician myself. I think we are going into a new era of how we look at worth in general. Priorities are changing so rapidly as our collective awareness exponentially expands and we have our chubby faces jammed up against the, now quit obvious, limitations of our old skin called society.

            We have such an incredibly difficult choice to make: Except this torrent of information that, really, wants to be free. Or. Struggle to slip a valve on the end of this blossoming conduit to allow for profit that has been established for generations. Granted such a stated choice is a gross oversimplification of a mighty complex system we have set up, but I think that what we are moving closer to in the future is a new understanding of how we classify "Worth" as a society.

            Right now, people are told what to like, They are told what to pay for what they like. The Music media machine has expertly created a voting pool that keeps them in office, so to speak, much like the republicans helped create the religious right to the same. Except in terms of the entertainment industry, instead of pastors worshiping politicians, its suburbanite quasi thugs worshiping wealthy quasi thugs, yuppies worshiping plastic pop stars and rebellious teens worshiping hand crafted iconoclast flavored plastic.

            What if the music was free? All of it? What would happen to the masters? The Maestros?

            Why master an instrument over a lifetime, when a neonate with a drum machine can rock a dance floor for hours and have his or her kung fu action, play button pushing styles lauded as talent, as skill and passion? We live in interesting times indeed.

            I see us moving into an ocean of mediocrity where as a society our appetites for media, for stimulation are allowed to run unfettered as never before. This ocean is bursting with sound, with sights. Mountains of data to feast upon.

            BUT!!

            While this may seem like a terrible thing, like all things it to must pass. And I ask you. After all that eye candy and all those eargams, what if people actually started to reeeeally care again. Assuming its true that the ease in which technology has put "musical ability" into the hands of many, many noobs; how long before people catch on and take responsibility for their artists, their maestros? I think its sooner then one might think.

            Most likely if you are reading this I am preaching to the choir (assuming my mad ramblings even make a lick of sense), You probably don't even watch TV, or listen to the radio. But I thank you for reading non the less and ask before I close that you make a concerted effort to share or at least ask yourself what sharing means to you. Because when sharing is an unbroken chain rather then a token spirit lozenge, then we all get brought up in an interlaced net of connected universal support. The other option is to continue to have a group of people outside of yourself met out an allotment of energy, of worth for your rationing pleasure. One way is safe one is not. One magical one is not.

            Cheesy, but I stand by it.
            • Re: stolen copies of my new album

              Thu, January 24, 2008 - 12:05 PM
              I hereby dub this thread "Old Yeller"....
              • Re: stolen copies of my new album

                Thu, January 24, 2008 - 4:02 PM
                I like the part where we have to shoot it :)
                • Re: stolen copies of my new album

                  Wed, January 30, 2008 - 11:10 AM
                  As far as leaks and everything like that, I think it's great. I don't care if people "steal" our music. You can't really steal our music because I'm making our music to be heard. If you can't afford to buy our music, by all means take it. It's more important that you listen to it than it is that we make money or that some corporation somewhere makes money off of it. There has to be a balance between business and just enjoyment

                  - Omar Rodriquez-Lopez
                  The Mars Volta

                  Aren't we making music to be HEARD?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: stolen copies of my new album

                    Fri, February 1, 2008 - 12:56 AM
                    noodle yer missing the point

                    its about trying to honor a record label, and a lot of other details, yu gotta read the post bro!
                    :)

                    meaning, dont just chime in randomly...
                    your statement is so general and oversimplifying.

                    this is a big issue.
                    and trust, I AM WITH YOU! i totally share your sentiments. im not making music to hide it under my pillow, and im not making music for rich people only
                    since i started bassnectar.net in 1998, there has always been a free page full of downloads, with a little pay pal button to donate if yu wish (as ive said before Radiohead wasnt doing some new thing, it was just significante because they are so "established" etc)


                    anyhow i wanted to chime in cuz yer post just kinda seemed to zooom past my OG point

                    love yer music, by the way!
                    L
                    • Re: stolen copies of my new album

                      Fri, February 1, 2008 - 12:57 PM
                      touche...sorry for the haste...
                      • Re: stolen copies of my new album

                        Tue, February 12, 2008 - 7:51 PM
                        any opinions on performing a dj set using other peoples music which was purchased?
                        I occasionally shout out the name of the producer and song title when I play sets, but not very often.
                        if I am asked about a track that was played I will share the info and will certainly include track listing
                        for a cd...
                        I am 100% dedicated to paying for tracks- as an aspiring dj/producer it is the ethical choice.
                        but I still feel self concious sometimes representing someone else's music.

                        Lorin, I have played your "bomb the blocks" Bassnectar remix about ten times at parties.
                        being as I know you as a friend I have felt comfortable doing so, and have given vocal props a few times ..

                        but just to be clear- is that okay?
                        how do people feel about this issue..
                        • Re: stolen copies of my new album

                          Tue, February 12, 2008 - 8:27 PM
                          DJ's do that all the time, ie, play other people's music. I certainly do. It's all good. No need to shout out, unless you really want peeps to know whose track it is. :)

                          If you're professionally djing, though, you best be paying for your tracks, else that is whack. No if's, and's, or butt's...

                          The bottom line, the digital age has turned an already screwed industry on its head. In the old model, any time music got played publicly, publishing with ASCAP or BMI would get you paid performance royalties. It used to be a musician could make a living on performance royalties alone if they had publishing rights. Nowadays, so few artists/producers even know who ASCAP or BMI are...I often wonder how big clubs deal with the whole ASCAP/BMI thing. I've never been asked or heard anyone have to turn in a set list at a gig, which would allow these performance rights organizations to accurately track play time. Anyone got the lowdown on that?

                          Now, if you're gonna release a promo CD or online mix (not for sale), you really should do a track listing so the artist gets at least properly represented. I get so many mixes that aren't tracked out. Shoot, I've done it, but haven't gotten really good the last few years with doing a track listing. What's worse, are the mixes I see often for sale. I have to ask myself if the DJ got every artists' permission before doing that...licensing an artist's track is usually expensive. Ask Om. They'll tell ya...You have to license songs if you plan on selling the mix. If you don't-owie...
                          • Re: stolen copies of my new album

                            Tue, February 12, 2008 - 9:56 PM
                            oh hellll yeah!

                            dood anything released, by all means cane the hell out of it!!!!
                            :)

                            i mean frankly, DJing is soooo ridiculous, i guess yu should just play whatever yu want.


                            just know i LOVE having my music in other DJs sets.
                            i try and rep other ppls whose tunes i play as well, sometimes i shout it over the mic, but i dont want to get annoying.

                            i think it gets tricky when yu record and distribute.
                            credit is really key

                            for instance on my latest podcast thing, i include a tracklist(editor's note, due to frusterating internal management scenarios blah blah, it will be up before that link is accessed by poeple who i havent personally directed to it and included a tracklist to)

                            releasing a mix by DJ BOB, and writing DJ BOB and it has like 32 tracks, maybe 2 of which are edited by DJ BOB....not so much the propper technique for 2008.


                            so rock the released tunes!
                            rock parties with them, mixes, freinds, love, the elderly

                            :)

                            WOMP

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